Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. >> No one thought death ... although the typical cold Florida January weather not to mention the flu going around could get ya, so be careful! ;-) <<Some insiders over at MC are claiming that the TRON attraction presentation will be happening within the week and that it's expected to get the green light. >> <<There is a management meeting in Florida as all senior folks are on-site for the Dream launch on the 18th.>> Anything happening at MK on the 18th? Party-wise, not announcement ... <<However anyone that claims that any project proposed is "expected to be greenlit" has no understanding of how things operate in WDP&R. Even projects that we all thought were dead-certs end up DOA and those projects that we think are the weak link (like FL Expansion!) get approved. There are plenty of things being considered for WDW. However there is a tremendous amount of nervousness over the robustness of the economic recovery and the fact that there has been a lot of capex over the past few years on both coasts (like DCL and CarsLand).>> They are nervous whether it's boom or bust. That's why they act so conservatively all the time. That's why they have stale parks that aren't kept up showing the same entertainment they did in the 1990s. I guess they think they've handled WDW's 40th by flooding the resort with retro merchandise for the fanbois? Although if they think there is ANY 'recovery' going on, I'd suggest they take a drive around Central Florida ... they could even start in their old real estate experiment Celebration and move out to other areas. You spend three months away and return and things look bleaker all the time here.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Thanks for the info, Lee. There are some ardent TRON fans on other sites claiming that Disney is not disappointed with the box. I find that unbelievable. How could Disney not be disappointed? They were expecting TRON to do as well as Alice did, as Lee reported previously. Lee posted a few months ago that Disney was expecting TRON to be their third billion dollar film, right behind Alice and TS3. Well, TRON will get only half of that, maybe less. Half of what Alice and TS3 did? And they're not disappointed? How much pixie dust are these guys snorting? <<There are plenty of things being considered for WDW. However there is a tremendous amount of nervousness over the robustness of the economic recovery and the fact that there has been a lot of capex over the past few years on both coasts (like DCL and CarsLand).>> That makes much more sense to me. The TRON attraction proposal is rumored to be an expensive E-Ticket for TL. Why would Disney sink over $100 mil into an attraction with a still-to-be-determined-if-it's-profitable franchise? It's not like any of the Pixar properties with solid merchandise histories, or the Disney princess roster. I can only imagine how wildly successful the exit gift shop will be for Little Mermaid at DCA and MK. The toy shop in Radiator Springs will easily break theme park merch records for years to come. But a TRON gift shop? Really? I just don't see Disney making that kind of gamble in this economic climate, without stellar DVD sales to shore up the mediocre box. Maybe they'll decide at the beginning of FY12, but I doubt anything will get greenlit before then. (BTW... leemac... it's now January. What happened to the rumors about Baxter retiring in January? Is he still staying? Has he got a new project? Anything?)
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Why would Disney sink over $100 mil into an attraction with a still-to-be-determined-if-it's-profitable franchise? > Even tbough people may not love the storyline of the first movie, the vast majority LOVE the look. They love the concept. They love the design, the music, and the effects. Those elements are really what make a great attraction, to me. That's what they mean by "story," anyway - not the plot of the attraction, but the whole experience. I think "entering the grid" in an amazing attraction could be a HUGELY popular E-Ticket ride, no mater what the movies do.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Josh. Look at how popular the Matterhorn is, but how many people have seen Third Man of the Mountain? I am not a fan of Alice in Wonderland or Wind in the Willows, but enjoy the attractions based on them.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox ^^ But that's not how Disney operates these days. It's about leveraging successful franchises into merchandise sales in the gift shops. The days of creating hugely expensive E-Tickets like Pirates and Mansion without successful franchises attached to them are gone. Disney does not care about how "great" an attraction can be on its own merits. That ship has sailed. It's all about promoting and growing the brands. The gift shop at the exit is more important than the actual attraction. That's how they justify the capex for the ride in the first place.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And Skinnerbox, that is why I am a Disney historian now, rather than a fan
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Disney does not care about how "great" an attraction can be on its own merits. That ship has sailed. It's all about promoting and growing the brands. The gift shop at the exit is more important than the actual attraction. That's how they justify the capex for the ride in the first place.> True, but the money has already been spent for the tron franchise. A movie is made. A TV show is on the way. And a sequel is possible. I don't think Disney is ready to give up on the TRON franchise, and a killer attraction can only help it succeed.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 "There are plenty of things being considered for WDW. However there is a tremendous amount of nervousness over the robustness of the economic recovery and the fact that there has been a lot of capex over the past few years on both coasts (like DCL and CarsLand)." Then someone from Disney needs to hop in their car and head to Universal Studios FL. I was there today a couple of weeks after New Years on a cold Florida day and both parks were packed.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Disney does not care about how "great" an attraction can be on its own merits. That ship has sailed. It's all about promoting and growing the brands. The gift shop at the exit is more important than the actual attraction. That's how they justify the capex for the ride in the first place.<< I agree with this and believe it to be right. However, in a bout of blatant naivete on my part, is it possible that they think that Tron will work out a bit like Cars where the movie is only so-so for $, and the merchandise could still be big? Maybe they like the success of ElecTRONica merchandise and will try to expand on that with an attraction. I sure don't have any knowledge on this, but I'm just wondering if there is a little more than just fanboi frothing over Tron. Seems odd. Maybe a focus group somewhere has them convinced they will make big bucks on a Tron attraction. Or possibly even they realize something has to be done about TL and this is it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I agree with this and believe it to be right. However, in a bout of blatant naivete on my part, is it possible that they think that Tron will work out a bit like Cars where the movie is only so-so for $, and the merchandise could still be big?>> It could be possible, if the merchandise wasn't selling at a comparable rate to horse ****.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Then someone from Disney needs to hop in their car and head to Universal Studios FL. I was there today a couple of weeks after New Years on a cold Florida day and both parks were packed.>> This actually might be what is driving the TRON franchise. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is a unprecedented success for Uni. TDO execs must be bleeding from their eyes every time they see Uni packed to the gills like this. And that one millionth butterbeer sale must have hurt, too. Over in the "What if TRON fails?" thread on the Live Action board, I posted a link to the latest Harry Knowles article on AICN. He claims that news of a green light for the next TRON film will happen soon. I was shocked at first, but now... I'm starting to think that maybe Disney might be onto something here. When it comes to the Live Action part of the studio, Disney only has Pirates as a bankable franchise. Narnia is gone, Sorcerer's Apprentice was a bust, so what do they have but Capt Jack? And how many more films can Depp keep the franchise afloat? Maybe Disney feels they can actually nurture TRON into a profitable brand if they continue developing it. I know there's going to be an animated TV series, and many insiders have claimed that the proposed TRON-based E-Ticket for TL encompasses brand new technology that will knock the riders' socks off. Heaven knows MK could use something like that, like 10 years ago! It's definitely a gamble. But if the rumors are true, I guess Disney feels like it has no other choice but to dance with the date they done brought.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<This actually might be what is driving the TRON franchise.>> Unfortunately Tron will never come close to touching Potter's popularity.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Ssshh!! Don't tell TDO that! Let them enjoy their fantasies while they can!! 8^D
Originally Posted By Anatole69 I wonder how much of the reported budget for Tron Legacy includes any development costs for all the other Tron projects, such as TV programs, E ticket attraction and movie sequel. It could be that when divorced from these extra add on expenses, the movie is more profitable than it appears to some. - Anatole
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Actually, I doubt it, Anatole. Remember that the Pixar Brain Trust™ was brought in early last year to "fix" the script and tighten up the story. There were re-shoots of key scenes because of the script changes, which obviously jacked up production costs. And if those changes required overtime for visual effects artists, which they probably did, then definitely production costs were increased. I believe the $170 mil figure is accurate, given all the changes done about eight months prior to release.
Originally Posted By brotherdave I truly feel that a TRON based thrill-ride has some true potential for the parks. Here's why: 1) TRON is already a fairly recognizable brand and look that is certainly unique and very much appealing to twenty-somethings to 40-something baby-boomers. Maybe the toys aren't selling as great as they hoped for at the stores, but if I recall, neither did the POTC merchandise. 2) A well designed theme-park attraction based on TRON will certainly be an appealing and exciting "look", whether it be a simulator, roller coaster, dark ride, etc. If the ride is good enough, regardless of the theme, they will come. 3) If the ride is successful, then merchandise will sell, especially T-shirts, hats, etc, you know, typical theme park "junk" that usually sells well when a ride or attraction is just popular. 4) The attraction(s), if timed properly with the release of a possible sequel, good be huge publicity for both the film and parks with said attraction. Let's face it, synergy is usually what Disney does best today. Finally, I think the apparent success of ElecTRONica at DCA might be a possible measuring stick if people might want some sort of permanant TRON attraction. It also could fit the bill for adding a major D or E-Ticket to Tomorrowland, Studios, or Future World. (I still think a TRON themed simulator attraction replacing Body Wars/Wonders of Life at EPCOT is their best bet right now as most of the infrastructure is already in place and costs would be considerably less to get this accomplished at a relatively quick pace.) I respect Lee's opinions and he certainly has a huge inside lead on what may or may not happen within Disney. But in my opinion, if they DON'T add some sort of TRON based attraction at the parks, I truly feel that they're missing a golden opportunity. Even if it's just a "simple", yet "kick-butt" indoor roller coaster with a TRON theme, the TRON-style is instantly appealing, epecially when considering in-park merchandise sales. I know other theme park chains (Universal included) that would possibly be salivating at creating some TRON based thrill ride attraction. Personally, I think it would be much more appealing to the masses than a Burton/Depp themed "Alice in Wonderland" attraction. Just my thoughts as someone who frequents many other theme parks outside the world of Disney and sees the "junk" people will buy from standard, unthemed (or loosely themed), yet extremely popular roller coasters.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <Why would Disney sink over $100 mil into an attraction with a still-to-be-determined-if-it's-profitable franchise? > <<Even tbough people may not love the storyline of the first movie, the vast majority LOVE the look. They love the concept. They love the design, the music, and the effects.>> Based on what? Seriously .. the vast majority of who loves the look? The first film, which I loved (but also haven't seen since the 1980s when I was a child), was a flop in every sense. It was (like films from The Black Hole to The Black Cauldron) put into the farthest reaches of Mouse Purgatory for decades. Disney wanted no part of it before they finally (and reluctantly) agreed to a sequel and, admitedly, were encouraged by the fan support at Comic Con. Thing is, though, that audience doesn't really mean a mainstream audience is going to love the thing. I was excited about seeing Legacy, but I'm so behind in movies and not sure when I'll get around to it (seeing Social Network finally tonight). But there's no way to sugarcoat the film as anything but a disappointment and Disney bases future park attractions on franchises and the synergy opps from them. They just don't exist with Tron ... and I'd love to see an attraction ... well, a really well done Tokyo/Potter quality attraction. <<Those elements are really what make a great attraction, to me. That's what they mean by "story," anyway - not the plot of the attraction, but the whole experience. I think "entering the grid" in an amazing attraction could be a HUGELY popular E-Ticket ride, no mater what the movies do.>> Agreed. But it just doesn't matter. Disney is looking at what can be leveraged across multiple platforms (I HATE speaking like this) ... things like Mermaid and Cars and Toy Story and Pirates can ... Tron, it appears, can't.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney does not care about how "great" an attraction can be on its own merits. That ship has sailed. It's all about promoting and growing the brands. The gift shop at the exit is more important than the actual attraction. That's how they justify the capex for the ride in the first place.>> Nothing to add, skinner. Just think the point needs to be driven home to anyone who thinks otherwise.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Then someone from Disney needs to hop in their car and head to Universal Studios FL. I was there today a couple of weeks after New Years on a cold Florida day and both parks were packed.>> Doncha know Potter is just a fad and after its been open a year or two and the films have stopped that it's all going to simply die and people will head back for all the stale pixie dust they can snort at Mickey's? (BTW, this line of thinking has also been applied to everything from Star Wars to Mickey himself ... and it's BS all the time.) Oh, and I really hope those crowds die down for one day later this month so I can finally see WWoHP myself.
