Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Here's the part that worries me for my beloved Disney....for any company (or person, really), the minute "desperate" gets into the mix you have to worry. The smartest, most knowledgeable people in the world can't see the forest for the trees when they are feeling desperate. Let go of Tron. Step back. Realize franchises have to come with some sort of energy of their own. It can not be forced. Nudged, encouraged, helped - sure. But not forced. Create good product and be prepared when the opportunities come.>> Unfortunately, the company is becoming more and more creatively bankrupt, IMO. They're desperate because they don't know where to go. So instead of making their own new, great ideas and movies, they have to beat the dead horse that is Pirates, try to resurrect a franchise that never was, and buy Marvel(who they're already screwing with).
Originally Posted By Manfried If you find that Disney is creatively bankrupt then quit complaining about it and do the one thing that will get their attention. Quit going. Quit spending money on them then complain about it not being up to par. They are a business first and foremost. Don't forget it. If you just complain, but still go, then they frankly do not care.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<If you find that Disney is creatively bankrupt then quit complaining about it and do the one thing that will get their attention. Quit going. Quit spending money on them then complain about it not being up to par. They are a business first and foremost. Don't forget it. If you just complain, but still go, then they frankly do not care.>> A) I am. B) Even when I was going they weren't getting money from me considering I got in for free.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I dont think Disney is scared at all. Disney is now firmly planted in corporate mode. Corporations dont get scared. I think it is just too big for it to be scared. I think the people who can affect change from within, namely Iger, Staggs and even Meg C are too much ingrained to be worried. Especially when you consider the current economic climate in the county, it is easy to see that as the main reason for drops in attendance...as it may well be. I think Disney looks at Universal and see their numbers and may say "Wow" but I dont think they are scared about it. I think that is the reason Disney will continue to do business the way it does. There is no one within to sound an alarm. Disney reacts like most companies do...they are reactive instead of proactive. Look at several major companies who were giants in their fields who are either gone or just a shell that they once were...Blockbuster, Tower Records, Virgin Records, Borders, even Kodak. Instead of continuing to be inovators in their fields they fell into complacency. While I dont think that Disney will close in my lifetime, I do think Disney runs the risk of being a place that people say "They used to be great." which would be a terrible thing for any creative company.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>.Disney is now firmly planted in corporate mode<<< When have they not been in corporate mode? The problem is getting them to be in a corporate mode that actually does new things.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 ^^^I think anytime before Frank Wells passing Disney was less in corporate mode than now. By corporate mode I mean a company that is so big that there is no one creating a unified vision and mission plan for the company. So of course Disney had Walt, then Roy, then Card and so on. These men had a mission to make Disney the best at what it was and put the guest first knowing that it would create profits. Today the norm is cost analysis of something before approving it.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Well, there are rumors about TRON 3 being in production, now... Slashfilm has them out.>> And even Harry Knowles at AICN isn't convinced that TRON 3 has been given the green light. (See my new thread in Disney Live Action about it.)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I enjoy the first TRON movie, but have yet to see the sequel so I can't really comment on that. However, I am not really interested in a TRON attraction being built at MK. >> I haven't seen the second film yet, either. Wanted to ... and I'm sure I will at some point, but it isn't must-see for me and the lukewarm reception it has garnered at both the BO and critically have likely made it less pressing to see in an actual theater. <<I feel that Disney needs to step back from these franchises and build something that is original. >> I don't actually care whether Disney builds based on films/franchises/characters or not with one huge caveat: namely, I expect top quality attractions that push the bar and, in some cases, the envelope as well of themed family entertainment. While I tire of toons, I'd tire less so if they actually were quality attractions. Look at MK's T-Land where instead of entering a world of tomorrow, you enter a world of cheaply done, crappy toon-based attractions. I wasn't all that bothered by Monsters Ride and Go Seek at TDL because I was too busy having fun and being impressed by it. I can count on a few fingers the times WDW attractions have impressed me in the 21st century.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I'm surprised that The Weatherman would let a thrill ride be built in the Magic Kingdom, or that a "failed" franchise would somehow hold just as much appeal as Potter, or be worthy to be called a "Potter Swatter", but I guess I'll save judgement for if this thing ever gets built.>> I agree, GOB. It does seem strange. And I love the moniker, "Potter Swatter"! Nice ring to it. Is that what Imagineers are calling their wonder technology TRON E-Ticket?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<If you find that Disney is creatively bankrupt then quit complaining about it and do the one thing that will get their attention. Quit going. Quit spending money on them then complain about it not being up to par.>> That describes several of us here, Manfried, including myself. I haven't been to WDW in over three years. When I went last, I spent two days at the parks but didn't stay at an on-property resort. I spent two days at Uni/IOA but did stay in one of their resorts. And I've only been to DL for one day (on my birthday in 2009) in the past six years. And technically, someone else arranged the trip and took me, during the birthday promotion. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone. So yeah... I used to go to DL at least six times a year and WDW at least once, often twice a year, until five years ago. Now I spend more time off Disney property in both SoCal and Florida when I'm traveling. Disney is just too expensive for what you get now. The quality has dropped dramatically. And yes, I've told them as much in one of those post-vacation surveys they send out.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Skinnerbox, the drive is not there as much anymore as the standards have slipped too far. I do want to get to Tokyo though.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Since all of the above is true, folks are insistent that this will happen (well, except for the mindless fanbois who think ancient concepts like WRE are coming, but that's a whole 'nother group).<< <<I was one of the first people to put forth the WRE idea was coming back, but that was due to the limited insider tidbits that were being posted, and to be honest it made sense at the time. Not so much anymore! >> Oops, please pardon the 'mindless' comment But, honestly, Disney doesn't build attractions like that anymore. It would never pass the most basic 'sniff test' of anyone at the company. It has as much chance of happening as DL's old Rock Candy Mountain concept from Walt's days ... or this hot rumor (again on that MAGICal site) that Disney is out of space (SOOO NOT TRUE) for new EPCOT pavilions in WS and Disney wants to swap nations out (sooooo not happening!) <<I'm surprised that The Weatherman would let a thrill ride be built in the Magic Kingdom, or that a "failed" franchise would somehow hold just as much appeal as Potter, or be worthy to be called a "Potter Swatter", but I guess I'll save judgement for if this thing ever gets built.>> It is a big 'IF' right now. And 'IF' it were to happen, you'd likely not see it debut in FLA before 2015-16 timeframe ... that's an eternity from now (especially if the world ends next December!) But I've heard the fanbois in Anaheim are up in arms (on yet another CHATTY site) over a Tron attraction and they won't take no for an answer. The reality is the Tron attraction being pushed for Shanghai (and possibly cloned for MK) is NOT the one that was talked about for DL's Peoplemover tracks. This attraction will require a very large show building/footprint if/when/anywhere it gets built. Oh, and Shanghai's isn't a done deal yet, simply because the park/resort isn't either. You did see how Iger and Willow flew from the Dream launch to D.C. to attend the State Dinner Obama had for Hu Jintao, right? A lot of favors were called in for that invite ... and poor Bob and Willow didn't even get to sit at the Big Boys Table ... instead they were relegated to hanging with Joe (Biden). A lot of fanbois are getting way ahead of themselves. Instead, they should head over to TPFKaTD-MGMS and see that MAGICal new parade (now with dumbed down floats, half the perfomers and a six-minute run time) because that's the 'NEW' at WDW this 40th anniversary year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well, there are rumors about TRON 3 being in production, now... Slashfilm has them out. >> Tron 3 isn't in production because Disney hasn't approved the film yet. There are always lots of rumors because that (along with porn and Facebook, one of which is actually good for something) is what the Internet exists for. Iger does seem desperate to make this a franchise, but I don't see him jumping to invest hundreds of millions in a new film when the current one is still hundreds of millions in the red. Make sense?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>^^^I think anytime before Frank Wells passing Disney was less in corporate mode than now. By corporate mode I mean a company that is so big that there is no one creating a unified vision and mission plan for the company. So of course Disney had Walt, then Roy, then Card and so on. These men had a mission to make Disney the best at what it was and put the guest first knowing that it would create profits. Today the norm is cost analysis of something before approving it.<<< I think Eisner certainly did that... Disney Decade and all.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney reacts like most companies do...they are reactive instead of proactive.>> Magical spin thread anyone? ;-) <<Look at several major companies who were giants in their fields who are either gone or just a shell that they once were...Blockbuster, Tower Records, Virgin Records, Borders, even Kodak. Instead of continuing to be inovators in their fields they fell into complacency. While I dont think that Disney will close in my lifetime, I do think Disney runs the risk of being a place that people say "They used to be great." which would be a terrible thing for any creative company.>> I already feel that way in many ways about TWDC. I certainly feel that way about the WDW parks. I still enjoy them with a caveat ... I enjoy them now for 'what they are' because they are a pale shadow of what they were. They are in many ways a pale shadow of what Disney offers in other resorts around the globe. Where is the cutting edge quality, innovation and immersion that Disney used to offer in O-Town? Oh yeah, it's moved down I-4.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>^^^I think anytime before Frank Wells passing Disney was less in corporate mode than now. By corporate mode I mean a company that is so big that there is no one creating a unified vision and mission plan for the company. So of course Disney had Walt, then Roy, then Card and so on. These men had a mission to make Disney the best at what it was and put the guest first knowing that it would create profits. Today the norm is cost analysis of something before approving it.<<< <<I think Eisner certainly did that... Disney Decade and all.>. Eisner certainly had a vision at first, but he also had a company with tremendous assets that weren't being utilized at all (from land in FLA to animation to CPs) ... I was there when Eisner announced the Disney Decade and maybe 15% of what was announced got built.
Originally Posted By ionbyte <<But I've heard the fanbois in Anaheim are up in arms (on yet another CHATTY site) over a Tron attraction and they won't take no for an answer. The reality is the Tron attraction being pushed for Shanghai (and possibly cloned for MK) is NOT the one that was talked about for DL's Peoplemover tracks.>> I know that everything is unconfirmed at this point, but why would they want to build a completely different TRON attraction for DL? Wouldn't they want to clone the Shanghai version to both DL and MK to save money?
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>I know that everything is unconfirmed at this point, but why would they want to build a completely different TRON attraction for DL? Wouldn't they want to clone the Shanghai version to both DL and MK to save money?<< I can think of two reasons: 1- DL has a Peoplemover track they need to use. 2- Room. DL would have to rip something out (I'm looking at you Innoventions...) in order to fit a ride with such a large footpring as the Shanghai version.
Originally Posted By ionbyte <<I can think of two reasons: 1- DL has a Peoplemover track they need to use. 2- Room. DL would have to rip something out (I'm looking at you Innoventions...) in order to fit a ride with such a large footpring as the Shanghai version.>> I always assumed that Innoventions wasn't going to stay around much longer....
