TX GOP trying to ban the teaching of thinking

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<It seems they have more rights than most people who were born here legally...>

Try living their life for a day or two. I'm sure you would quickly discover just how wrong you are. I'm not saying they SHOULD have more rights... just that the reality is they live their lives in fear of being caught and deported. Few will take the chance of discovery to gain those "rights".

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< Illegal aliens have the right to free education, welfare and health care, >>>

Time for a fact check here. While it's true that for the most part public school systems don't verify students' immigration status, please provide references to where illegal aliens are receiving welfare or free health care (aside from emergency-room visits).

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

Try living their life for a day or two. I'm sure you would quickly discover just how wrong you are. I'm not saying they SHOULD have more rights... just that the reality is they live their lives in fear of being caught and deported. Few will take the chance of discovery to gain those "rights".<<

Then maybe they should leave? Seriously, if they live in fear of being deported and it's so rough for them, go back to their own country and try to come here legally..It's a long process and it may/may not work, but it's LEGAL.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< Illegal aliens have the right to free education, welfare and health care, might as well let em vote too >>>

<<< It seems they have more rights than most people who were born here legally... >>>

Notice also what has happened. We were discussing mandatory ID requirements for voting, and the topic keeps getting changed to illegal immigrants and voting. There's an implication here that the people that are against mandatory voter ID laws support illegals voting, and/or that illegals voting because of the absence of mandatory voter ID laws is a problem.

These associations have been drilled into peoples' heads by the noise machine, so it's no surprise that they show up repeatedly here.

Also notice that nobody here that would be reasonably presumed to be in favor of mandatory voter ID seems to be willing to actually come out and say illegal voting is an actual problem. I too think that this echos the noise machine. If someone were to make such a claim, it could easily be refuted with the facts, and we can't have that, now can we? So instead, we see people dancing around the issue, making statements that are intended to lead people to believe that illegal voting is a problem, and that people against Voter ID support illegal voting, but without actually saying it.

 

Originally Posted By DyGDisney

>>>Then maybe they should leave? Seriously, if they live in fear of being deported and it's so rough for them, go back to their own country and try to come here legally..<<<

Guess the Native Americans probably said that about your ancestors as well. Oh, sorry, that's right, it's ok that your ancestors came here without invite because they were white Europeans.

 

Originally Posted By DyGDisney

I think legal immigrants SHOULD have the right to vote if they go through the process of becomming a US citizen.

I also believe the children of illegal immigrants born in this country should be able to get an education like any other child born in this country.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< I think legal immigrants SHOULD have the right to vote if they go through the process of becomming a US citizen. >>>

Of course they should. And they do.

If you are referring to my comment:

<<< even legal aliens should not be allowed to vote >>>

This comment doesn't apply to what you describe, as once they become US citizens, they are no longer aliens, legal or illegal.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

Re: #44.

+1. Big time.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

>>+1. Big time.<<

No doubt. Really well said, SD.

 

Originally Posted By Vic Sage

<People ineligible to vote actually casting ballots isn't even a small issue - it's a non-issue.>

How do you know this?

 

Originally Posted By mawnck

>>How do you know this?<<

Brains. We has them.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< <People ineligible to vote actually casting ballots isn't even a small issue - it's a non-issue.>

How do you know this? >>>

We can make reasonable assumptions based on the facts known to us. More specifically, the list of registered voters, along with the voting history of each registered voter (when they voted, not how they voted) is a matter of public record. Any member of the public can inspect these records. If there was any widespread abuse, someone would have noticed by now.

This is especially true since one of the major parties seems to be involved in a disinformation campaign to act as if ineligible people casting ballots is a big enough problem to warrant major changes in the voting process. Since partisans of this party are very often the registrar of voters in their counties, don't you think those registrars, the party itself, activist groups, or members of the public would have unearthed evidence of a widespread problem in this area? We have at least one GOP governor currently on a witch hunt for such ineligible voters. Where are the prosecutions?

As for ineligible voters voting, I'm sure it happens from time to time. Among other reasons, perhaps one of the most common reasons for this very rare event is that the person honestly didn't know that they were not eligible to vote. Sometimes people believe they are citizens when they aren't. There's probably at least one green card holder out there that thinks they have the right to vote. Do you think these rare events are a good enough reason for a wholesale change in the voting system?

 

Originally Posted By TMI

Looking forward to conservative responses to posts 44 and 52...it'd be great to read some point by point rebuttals.

 

Originally Posted By Vic Sage

<Since partisans of this party are very often the registrar of voters in their counties, don't you think those registrars, the party itself, activist groups, or members of the public would have unearthed evidence of a widespread problem in this area?>

Haven't there been accusations of voter fraud by whichever party is the registrar in the county? Isn't it possible that the current systems don't easily allow investigations into voter fraud?

<Where are the prosecutions?>

Are you saying there have never been any prosecutions of voter fraud?

<Do you think these rare events are a good enough reason for a wholesale change in the voting system?>

Is requiring voters to show a photo ID really a wholesale change in the voting system?

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

<Do you think these rare events are a good enough reason for a wholesale change in the voting system?>

Is requiring voters to show a photo ID really a wholesale change in the voting system?<<

That's the problem with the argument against a voter ID, it makes no sense to not check the identification of the person voting. Yet, people argue that you would prevent people from voting if you forced them to get an ID.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

In PA this year, they are proposing requiring a form of ID that about 9% of the population doesn't have. And they're not proposing any corollary mechanisms to help those without ID get some. A couple of small private groups have said they'll do what they can, but they will at best only cover a fraction.

Moreover, hard as it may be for us political junkies to fathom, a lot of people don't pay attention to this stuff. They figure they've never needed photo ID before, so they should just come to the polls as usual and vote.

And the lion's share of people without photo ID reside in - ta da! - Philadelphia and Allegheny counties, the two most heavily Democratic counties in the state.

You really think that was an accident?

Even if people scramble - for no good reason - to get alternate ID, that will only cut down the disenfranchisement from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands. In one state.

Know how many cases of voter fraud have been brought in the last 10 years? About 400. Nation-wide. Less than one per state per year.

You could call this a "solution" in search of a problem, if it weren't so transparently an attempt to rig the system. This amounts to greater fraud than the "fraud" that people have been ginned up into fearing ever was.

 

Originally Posted By Vic Sage

<Know how many cases of voter fraud have been brought in the last 10 years? About 400. Nation-wide. Less than one per state per year.>

What is your source for this?

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

You could call this a "solution" in search of a problem, if it weren't so transparently an attempt to rig the system. This amounts to greater fraud than the "fraud" that people have been ginned up into fearing ever was.<<

You need an ID to buy alcohol, to buy cigs, to get a credit card, why is it trying to rig a system when you ask for a voter ID to vote? Granted I am not saying implement it immediately, but come up with a 4 year plan, give people time to react and say in 2016, no ID, no vote...It's not rigging the system, it's common freaking sense.

Also, just because voter fraud isn't reported, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Originally Posted By mawnck

>>Also, just because voter fraud isn't reported, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.<<

Just like Bigfoot.

Who, BTW, was caught trying to vote for Gore in the Presidential election of 2000 at a polling place in Bluff Creek, CA, despite having no government-issued ID.

He was given a provisional ballot. I never found out what happened with that, though, since it turned out to not matter.

 

Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan

>>I never found out what happened with that, though, since it turned out to not matter.<<

He dangled a Chad and went back into the woods.