Originally Posted By A Foolish Mortal If they do build RS in WDW, probably in Magic Kingdom or Animal Kingdom, I would hope they retool it to be a Emperor's New Groove one. that would be an awesome ride, and it would draw a lot of people. I vote for an emperor's new groove one.
Originally Posted By CMM1 Went on the Indy ride in Paris last year - without a doubt the worst ride I have ever been on in a Disney park. On a scale of 1 to 5: Theming: 1 (just a bunch of exposed track circling around a big cement temple-type building) Ride quality: 1 (drops are short and turns are fairly flat; loop is very small and tight; lots of banging around of the head on the over-the-shoulder restraints) This ride was simply not Disney "quality" and is something one would expect at the old Knott's or even some smaller park. Anybody involved at the management level of the Disney parks should consider this ride a complete black mark on their resume for placing such an attraction amongst the fine achievements in theming and design that Disney has become famous for over the years.
Originally Posted By basas <<^^ No. >> I hope you're right! But...we're still getting SOME sort of e-ticket at MK, aren't we?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo CMM1 is totally right. In fact I cannot remember the last time I went on Indiana Jones and the Temple of Peril - it is awful. It was supposed to be a place holder before Space Mountain was built to alleviate the lines from Big Thunder. And now there is talk of cloning it. I think this could just be a rumour (and hope so too!!!)
Originally Posted By avromark So is the general feeling on LP that Disney feels "something is better then nothing" (ie Goofy's Barnstormer) now over the old "quality beyond expectations" approach (See POTC DL for an example).
Originally Posted By leemac <<It was supposed to be a place holder before Space Mountain was built to alleviate the lines from Big Thunder.>> Dave Indy wasn't designed as a placeholder per se. It was a permanent attraction for added capacity. The site for the Indy Jones Adventure was right next door and would have created an Indy area of Adventureland.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ok, my mistake. My understanding from a conversation with a Jr. Imagineer was it was a placeholder for a short term (10 - 15 years). However, I suspect given your sources, and what we have seen, it was always intended for the long term. For the record, I really enjoyed it when it was running backwards.
Originally Posted By CMM1 "Dave Indy wasn't designed as a placeholder per se. It was a permanent attraction for added capacity. The site for the Indy Jones Adventure was right next door and would have created an Indy area of Adventureland." Hard to imagine that DLP would have two "Indiana Jones and the Temple of ....." rides in the same area. Or have an "E-ticket" Indiana Jones ride next to a "B-ticket" Indy ride. Would have to think that the minute the Disneyland or DisneySea version of the Indy ride showed up in DLP that they wouldn't be able to tear down the current Indy ride fast enough. However, at this point, given the status of the Paris Studios park, would expect that if they were going to bring the good Indy ride to Paris it would end up in the Studios.
Originally Posted By LindsayC <Hard to imagine that DLP would have two "Indiana Jones and the Temple of ....." rides in the same area. Or have an "E-ticket" Indiana Jones ride next to a "B-ticket" Indy ride. > The plan was to have both (and the land for the ‘Adventure’ attraction is still available).
Originally Posted By a1stav ^^^^ Just like TDL has both. BTW the Indy ride in Paris is pretty good. Not an E-ticket but a good C ticket in my book.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros TDL has both, but their version of the coaster has no references to Indy at all. It is a carbon copy of the coaster, but there are different artifacts that it weaves around (the ones in Paris look much better, IMO), and a different explination of the back story (although minimal at both). The TDS version has something to do with the fire and water gods fighting, and somehow they catch you and take you on a runaway mine ride. In DLP, you are supposed to be going on an expedition of the temple with Indy, when something goes horribly wrong.
Originally Posted By CMM1 "TDL has both, but their version of the coaster has no references to Indy at all. It is a carbon copy of the coaster, but there are different artifacts that it weaves around (the ones in Paris look much better, IMO), and a different explination of the back story (although minimal at both)." Minimal is a huge overstatement of the creativity and themeing found in the Indy DLP ride. The ride itself has no effects and very little creativity - it is just bare track coursing around a temple-like thing. The Disneyland Mr. Toad ride is a veritable creative wonder compared to this turkey of a ride. "BTW the Indy ride in Paris is pretty good. Not an E-ticket but a good C ticket in my book" If Indy in DLP is a "C", then Mr. Toad in DL is an "E" and rides such as Space Mt. or BTMRR are "G"s. If Walt Disney walked up to Indy at DLP and saw it, he would probably have said something like "what is this ride doing here - did they have a fire sale at Knott's?" A guy who had the nerve to build the Matterhorn from scratch (including a whole new steel tube coaster technology) or design something as creative and technology-driven like POTC would surely laugh and then cry at seeing a ride like DLP Indy in his park. Even Knott's had the good sense to retire the dreadful Windjammer (which I believe was made by the same folks that designed DLP's Indy.)
Originally Posted By brotherdave Knott's "Windjammer" was designed by Togo of Japan. "Indiana Jones Temple du Peril" and "Raging Spirits" were designed by Intamin (same company that designed "California Screamin'" and Cedar Point's "Millennium Force" and "Top Thrill Dragster" as well as Knott's "Xcellerator". (Source: <a href="http://www.rcdb.com" target="_blank">http://www.rcdb.com</a>)
Originally Posted By CMM1 bd: Thanks for the clarification. So the headbanging sensations of both rides was probably due to the "small loop" design as opposed to anything peculiar to one company's design.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros If you think that the theming in DLP is bad, you should check out the TDS version. Sure, there are random artifacs scattered around the coaster, but nothing nearly as realistic lookin as the temple in DLP. Also, the temple gave the tracks the look of scaffholding, while the random stuff in TDS just looks like they threw a coaster there. Sure, TDS has mist and fire effects, but you totally miss most of it while riding it, along with the scenery. At least in DLP you're close enough to the temple to see it as you're flying around. I also find DLP's version to just look better walking by than the TDS version, but of course other people probably have different opinions than I do.
Originally Posted By a1stav "If Indy in DLP is a "C", then Mr. Toad in DL is an "E" and rides such as Space Mt. or BTMRR are "G"s." That's you opinion, I feel you have been overstating your card about the "minimal" theming. Actually the temple itself looks quite good and the coaster track and cars look convincingly like a mine car/track. Now it is not an E-ticket, it would have been if they had the ride go inside the temple and though the mines like in the Temple of Doom movie. I say a "C" is a good classification for it, Main Street Cinema (Main Street) Motor Boat Cruise (Fantasyland) Swiss Family Treehouse (Adventureland) Casey Junior Circus Train (Fantasyland) Those were "B" tickets. Fantasyland Theater (Fantasyland) Mad Tea Party (Fantasyland) Autopias (Fantasyland, Tomorrowland) Those were "C" ticket rides. Indy in Paris by that definition would easily make "C" ticket status. "A guy who had the nerve to build the Matterhorn from scratch" The Matterhorn was basically the same thing as Indy in Paris, a coaster winding around a mountain (temple). Not until the upgrade in the 70's to the Matterhorn did it move to a higher standard. In MY book I would give some Disney coasters these ticket values. Indy Paris "C" Space MT. Magic Kingdom "D" Space MT. Paris "E" Space MT. Disneyland "E" BTMRR Paris "E" slightly less for the DL and MK versions. CA Screamin' "D" Rock'n Roller Coaster "E" closer to an E minus. Matterhorn "D" Mullhoud Madness "B" Primeavil Whril "B" but lot's of fun!
Originally Posted By CMM1 "The Matterhorn was basically the same thing as Indy in Paris, a coaster winding around a mountain (temple). Not until the upgrade in the 70's to the Matterhorn did it move to a higher standard." The Matterhorn was a revolutionary attraction built in 1959 which included not only a show building of a scale that was far beyond anything ever attempted before at that time but which included a revolutionary tubular track system and a sophisticated dispatch/control system. Don't apply today's standards for coasters to this attraction - the Matterhorn helped to set the standard for modern tubular steel coasters in the amusement park industry and it set a whole new higher standard for thematic presentation of a ride concept. Indy DLP is nothing more than a carny ride with a minimally themed wrapper around it. The "upgrades" of the 1970's allowed the Matterhorn to keep up the pace with the kind of thematic quality that Disney established for themselves by making the ride experience look more like the inside of a mountain than it previously had been. In essence, the upgrades of the 1970's allowed the Matterhorn to keep pace - to keep pace with the standards that Disney themselves had set. Add to the fact that Walt not only built the Matterhorn but also added the Submarine Voyage and Monorail attractions in that same year and you can see how he really pulled out all the stops (and spent a ton of money)in 1959 to make Disneyland a truly unique and compelling park which became the standard against which all other theme parks of the future would be measured. So give the Matterhorn a bit more respect than to compare it to a cheezy off-the-shelf ride with a faux temple and few props sitting around. The Matterhorn in its day was just as revolutionary and cutting-edge as was POTC or Star Tours or the Disneyland Indy ride when they first appeared.
Originally Posted By a1stav I am very aware of the significance of the Matterhorn in Coaster/Themepark history, but in essence it is the same basic thing as the Indy Ride in Paris. Now could Disney have done better on the Indy coaster? YES. Is it the best themed coaster since sliced bread? NO! But the original Matterhorn had a huge exposed interior with no themeing whatsoever. That was a major flaw, even for 1959, it did get fixed later. Notice, judging from todays standards I still rated the Materhorn a "D" and the Indy Coaster a "C". I do feel the scope of Indy is far beyond the likes of the Mainstreet Cinema so it does rate better than a "B". Anyway do I think that Raging Spirits should come to the MK? Probably not, the MK needs/deserves better. I think that the 20K lagoon site would be the first place to start. I would love to see a couple of new C/D ticket darkrides come to Fantasyland.
Originally Posted By CMM1 "That was a major flaw, even for 1959, it did get fixed later" Not sure how big a flaw it was in 1959 - with very few other attractions like it in the world, the Matterhorn was still pretty much unique. And the use of the steel tubing for tracks was a very new concept at the time. I'm for giving Indy DLP a "C" because the mine cars look like mine cars and the queue has at least some redeeming aspects - but I'd still hold out for an "E" for the Matterhorn based upon historical significance and the theming aspect which very much makes it seem like a ride through a mountain in the same vein as BTMRR and EE. Granted, the last two are newer and more refined but they still owe their existence to their "Grandfather Matterhorn" at DL. I would also second your request for more/better dark rides in Fantasyland - with the wealth of recent Disney successes in animation one would think they could find at least one or two concepts for an interesting new dark ride experience. Hey, if nothing else, why not a return of Toad to WDW with newer technology (like those accelerator motors used on the Mummy, for instance?)
