Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Why all the emphasis around, "just who's castle is it anyway"? Does it really matter if it's called Beast's castle vs Prince Adam and Princess Belle's castle or Prince Eric's castle vs Prince Eric and Ariel's castle.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Thing is, though, MK's Fantasyland (even with the tents) was a much more beautiful place from 1971-1994 when 20,000 Leagues was running. The lagoon and trees and rockwork off-set the concrete jungle (to be fair, there were also more planters that have been removed so the double-wide strollers and ECVs can get thru) ... and even the Skyway provided some kinetics too.>> Yes, I guess that's part of the problem of Fantasyland that a very important part had been taken away. When I saw it for the first time in 2004, I wondered where the rest of Fantasyland was, it just seemed to be one long and rather narrow street. I am really quite hopeful that this new project will add more of a feeling of a land with lots of different paths.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Well, that, and it's a thematic justification. Makes sense to me.>> You are right about that. And I think it will alter the appearance of Fantasyland quite dramatically by dividing it into two separate parts. As I said in the previous post, Fantasyland always had this kind of feeling of a long street to me (from the teacups to the old Skyway station) and I think the castle wall will break this up quite nicely. But I still would have hoped that the facades of the buildings within the castle walls would get a face lift as well. They could incorporate all kind of building styles appropriate for auxiliary buildings in castles, or make it a medieval city with the castle wall instead being the city wall. I really am afraid that the difference between inside and outside the castle walls will be so dramatic that it will make the old tents look so obviously ugly and hence really take away from the experience.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Bolna, I only wished you could have seen Fantasyland back in the old days prior to 20,000K being bulldozed. Fantasyland was a huge area. Now a days it's a fraction of it's size. Sure some of the area will be added back with this new phase. But, I just think Fantasyland now is such a congested area and with a wall going up it's just going to funnel people even more. Walt was all about mobility and traffic flow. I can't believe he would put a wall through Fantasyland. Certainly crowd control has it's merits. You don't keep people up against the castle and people away from the castle. That area was initially planned open for a reason and it should be open, not walled in.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 Can you imagine WED or 2nd generation WDI saying "yea, this wall's gonna look old". This generation of WDI has about as much IQ as a reality show contestant
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: My sisters and I never understood the need for a new castle wall in the middle of this new Fantasyland expansion, either. ORWEN: And it still looks like they could have held on to a small version of Toon Town--complete with Mickey's and Minnie's houses--if only they would have. There seems to be an awful lot of extra, unused space over near to where Dumbo's Circus tent will be. Unless there are some secret plans for that space that they haven't announced, yet.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I thought the wall was one of the more logical aspects of this design. First of all, it's not depicted in renderings as a big, looming wall. It appears to be more of a series of arches, with a principal "entrance" near the center. The idea (as I understand it) is that the wall will mark the extent of the castle courtyard, and "outside" the wall will be a forest glade with various new structures and experiences. This also means that the festival tents of the existing FL will be "inside" the castle courtyard. (I always referred to the MK FL as "Fantasy Alley." Especially since they lost the Skyway.)
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Bolna, I only wished you could have seen Fantasyland back in the old days prior to 20,000K being bulldozed. Fantasyland was a huge area. Now a days it's a fraction of it's size. >> Well, there is so much at WDW which I did not get to see and I am a bit sad about that. Especially since no pictures or video will ever be able to capture the feeling of a space so well that it would be like being there. Real life just always beats anything on a screen. <<But, I just think Fantasyland now is such a congested area and with a wall going up it's just going to funnel people even more. Walt was all about mobility and traffic flow. I can't believe he would put a wall through Fantasyland.>> I think the wall can work, as DlandDug said, it does not have to be one big looking wall. I think it fits the theme of the castle very well and will provide a structure to the land. But maybe that's because for me castle walls are part of my everyday life. My house is about 1 mile from a real castle (dating back to 1200) and there are distinct castle walls there and they work very well for seperating the castle from the city.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo agreed, walls are quite normal in Europe, so this could work. So too could an Fantasia Gardens style approach. It is the lack of greenry (even when the lagoon was there) that always bugged me about the MK Fantasyland. That, and the lack of any real eye candy other than the castle or the now gone lagoon. This should help a lot.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom If you were to ask anyone what is missing from the MK, I have yet to hear someone utter, "If only it had a wall". If Disney wants to make Fantasyland look better do something about the flat one story fronts to all the building, so it doesn't look like a strip mall.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I don't understand the vitriol against the wall. It'll add theme. It'll be a berm. It'll look nice. It'll be a visual barrier on how the old Fantasyland looks next to the new one. How's that bad?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Because, of all the things that Fantasyland needs or would benefit from a wall isn't one of them. Things are rather sad when the highlight of your Fantasyland extreme makeover is adding a wall (or a berm). Can you imagine what kind of reaction people would be giving if Disney did that to say DHS. That instead of a Star Tours makeover. DHS got a "new wall". It's the equivilant of the soccer's hat! It's so unneccessary. Like this is the best you could do, add a wall? If only there was a wall dissecting Fantasyland! NOT, "well, we are going to take out a bathroom, tear down Peter Pan, update it and make it twice as long". "Gosh, wouldn't a matterhorn look good in that empty garden area between Mickey's Toontown and Space Mountain". "Nope, it's got to be a wall"!
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>Things are rather sad when the highlight of your Fantasyland extreme makeover is adding a wall (or a berm).<< How is the wall a "highlight"? It's just one design element in the whole makeover, and one that will (I think)be a nice addition. The new rides and restaurant are the highlights.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Seems to me we're straining a bit if we're directing our ire at a wall that is but one detail of a massive expansion...
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>Seems to me we're straining a bit if we're directing our ire at a wall that is but one detail of a massive expansion...<< Well....it IS a big wall(s)... Kidding. lol (Not about the size. The walls are about 16ft high, not counting the decorative turrets.)
