Originally Posted By Dabob2 It's also a much simpler situation than, oh, the global economy. When FDR famously said "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" he was addressing this; not that we shouldn't address a bad situation or pretend it didn't exist, but that if we freaked out about it and retreated to our own little cocoons, we'd just make a bad situation even worse. There's something to that; not only on consumer spending, but on investment as well, i.e. "why should I invest in this start-up company if the economy is just going to be a massive calamity 5 years from now?" It's a fine line to draw. You don't want to be unduly rosy, but you don't want to be unduly pessimistic either. The rub, of course, is what constitutes "unduly" in either case.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It's also a much simpler situation than, oh, the global economy.<< No, I think getting squooshed by a truck pretty much covers it. [/gallows humor] But I agree with your assessment. And it could be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy in that investment will stop when enough investors decide it's not worth it anymore. But that's how investing works. You don't invest in stuff that you think will lose money. Don't blame the investors. Blame the people who are creating the situation that makes the USA a bad investment. (Hint - the people in question have a first name of We-the.) Well, my microwave oven just died, so I'm off to buy a new one. Anybody want to place any bets on which country it will have originated from?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Lemme ask you this. If you are standing in the middle of the freeway, and an 18 wheeler is coming right at you, and I say "you better move or that 18 wheeler is going to squoosh you," and you don't, and it does ...<< Exactly. A lot of people are harboring the hope that this is just another recession and that we will bounce back from it. The problem is that this time it's different. Debt, both private, corporate amd public is at all time highs. Previous "recoveries" were financed with cheap and easy consumer debt. Case in point: before the crash 40% of vehicle purchases were financed with home equity loans. Now those loans are history and cars sales are ... surprise ... down 40%. Job creation is dead. Sure, its better than two years ago when it was in freefall and we were losing 700K jobs per month, but now we are lucky to just break even when we need a few hundred thousand new jobs every month just to cover new high school and college grads. Even if we were creating 300K new jobs every month it would take almost a decade to replace the jobs that were lost. The government stimulous spending is coming to an end and it is unlikely that there will be more as the US gov't is under international pressure to trim its budget deficits. We are in a situation where the "powers that be" want Joe 6 Pack to get out there and spend, but Joe is earning less, is already up to his eyeballs in debt and not only is he hesitant to borrow more, the bank's jacked up the rate on his credit card and lowered his credit limit. Housing reamains in the tank. Not surpising as lenders now want to see proof of income and acceptable debt to income ratios. NINJA (No Income, No Job or Assets) loans are no longer available. In other words, the "American consumer" won't be able to "borrow and spend" us back to prosperity. If anything, we have a long decade ahead of us where debt will be deleveraged.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Well, my microwave oven just died, so I'm off to buy a new one. Anybody want to place any bets on which country it will have originated from?" Let me guess, it won't be from Amana, Iowa. And depending on what you are buying you might find yourself in a very odd situation. A few months ago our 10 year old over the stove microwave gave up the ghost. So off to store we go. Turns out they don't keep any inventory (Home Depot) so wyou had to order it and wait months for one to arrive. And no, it wasn't because of high demand, jus t the opposite. Since so few were selling they had to wait until they reached a critical mass of orders before they (Maytag) would place an order with their Asian supplier. So instead we had the microwave repaired. Cost $100 vs $400+ for a new one. It took the mom n pop repair shop a few weeks to actually find the part (the magnetron) as no one seemed to have them in stock either (again that pesky inventory problem again).
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Funny. I walked into a Lowe's about a month and a half ago and took home a microwave. I'm not saying this to be difficult, but I'm just saying it, nonetheless.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^It depends on the model. We wanted a high end one and they didn't have any. This was a few months ago, maybe they're building up inventory again? Another pet peeve I have is that car dealers never have parts in inventory. I had a clicker die and they had to order it.
Originally Posted By hopemax ^^ I hear you on that one. We had some problems with out power steering. First, they said it was a problem with the bearings. Took a week for the parts. Then they found out that, while that was an issue, there was also an issue with the column. Thankfully, it only took 2 days for those parts. We really don't have the time to have to take the car to the dealership 3 times in order to get a repair done. And really, do they want to send the shuttle 3 days (6 trips total) to go get DH from his park & ride?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <But I agree with your assessment. And it could be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy in that investment will stop when enough investors decide it's not worth it anymore. But that's how investing works. You don't invest in stuff that you think will lose money. Don't blame the investors. Blame the people who are creating the situation that makes the USA a bad investment. (Hint - the people in question have a first name of We-the.)> Sometimes that's the same people. <Well, my microwave oven just died, so I'm off to buy a new one. Anybody want to place any bets on which country it will have originated from?> While I agree that some of the trouble we brought on ourselves, I can't blame that last one on "we the people." That one I put squarely on corporations and the perverse tax incentives put in place that actually encouraged outsourcing jobs and plants to other countries.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>car dealers never have parts in inventory. I had a clicker die and they had to order it.<<<< I could see a real shortage of that particular item. I have been around cars all my life and for the life of me I do not have a clue what a "clicker" is. Perhaps that was part of the delay...someone had to invent one. ;-)
Originally Posted By mawnck >>perverse tax incentives put in place<< ... by We the People. One of the right's favorite Big Lies is that government is part of "the Other." It ain't. And we had the choice to buy American or buy cheap-as-possible. We chose. And now we have no choice. >>for the life of me I do not have a clue what a "clicker" is.<< Young whippersnapper. I take it you didn't have a remote-control TV in the early 80s. ;-) PS - Having shopped around, I have determined that the microwave will be a Panasonic, coming from China by way of Costco. So the good news is, at least I'll be supporting one American company that doesn't suck.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>perverse tax incentives put in place<< <... by We the People. One of the right's favorite Big Lies is that government is part of "the Other." It ain't.> Well, yes and no. There's no way the average worker would have voted in tax incentives to outsource jobs. Yeah, yeah, we're a representative democracy, and we voted in the people who did that, yada yada yada. But just as it's foolish to deny all responsibility for "we the people" here, it's equally foolish not to recognize the distance that can develop between "we the people" and that government. Or that those who benefit from outsourcing jobs don't know that they can concentrate their time and resources on those 500-some people rather than all of us, and that in fact it's in their interest to keep many of those machinations hidden from us as much as possible. <And we had the choice to buy American or buy cheap-as-possible. We chose. And now we have no choice.> Oh, I'm with you there.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>Young whippersnapper. I take it you didn't have a remote-control TV in the early 80s. ;-)<<<< Young? Yup, that's me. I remember, sadly, the late 50's because it wasn't until then that we even had a TV. The Clicker then was the noise that the dial made when you turned it. However, you didn't turn it much because, if you were lucky, you got the one and only channel that was close enough to get the signal to your aluminum foil covered "rabbit ears" that sat on top of the set. BTW, they blew out tubes, yes I said tubes, about every 4 hours. You'd call the repair man, who then came out to your house with a big suitcase filled with "tubes" and he would find the bad one and replace it and then be on his way. Good times!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost See I got side tracked there so as a final statement, I am aware of clickers on TV sets just not one in a car, as the post indicated.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>just not one in a car, as the post indicated.<< The early TV remote controls were literally "clickers" - mechanical thingys that made a loud "click" at a certain high frequency pitch that made the TV do whatever it did for that button. (Side note - these TVs could be driven bananas by jingling your keys at them.) I think every household that ever had one of these remotes called them clickers, and the term migrated to their infrared replacements. Therefore, clicker = remote control, in this case that little thing on your keychain that unlocks the car doors and shuts off the alarm. Unless I'm misinterpreting, which wouldn't be the first time. PS - Why didn't you get a rooftop antenna so you could get the other two channels? PSS - How did this get so off-topic?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>PS - Why didn't you get a rooftop antenna so you could get the other two channels?<<<< Antenna's? Don't need no stinkin' antenna's. Rich folk had them. >>>>PSS - How did this get so off-topic?<<<< The original was depressing and eventually got very boring.
