Originally Posted By vbdad55 Loyalty should be rewarded ----- something completely gone in th4e business world today...many people 30+ years whacked for no other reason than they work in the states instead of India/Brazil/SE Asia where they make a pittance. I don't believe you'll ever see the loyalty factor from companies again, and shouldn't see it from the employees either any more
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Disney's public line is that when you look at the whole package: Salary, insurance, comp tickets, main gate pass and discounts, that they are compensating fairly. In fairness to Disney, what is a fair hourly salary for a front line CM? $8.00? $9.00? $10.00? ------------ the cost of benefits for a lower wage services employee can sometimes appraoch the salary level. If they truly have decent benefits than the wage may very well be 'fair'. I am not saying one can live very well on it- or at all-- but benefit increases are enormous. I paid $514/month for COBRA for my oldest when she turned 23 and my company no longer would cover her...( med & eyecare - no vision coverage) -
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ by the way as brutal as that was- thank God because a month before she was to start her first full time job- she had an appendicitis-- $26K worth in 2 days.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< the cost of benefits for a lower wage services employee can sometimes appraoch the salary level. If they truly have decent benefits than the wage may very well be 'fair'. >>> ... and that partially answers the question of "What would Walt Disney have done?" Walt may very well have paid more to front-line employees in wages, adjusted for inflation, and may have offered a longer-term pay raise scale. But Walt didn't operate in today's environment where a comprehensive benefits package costs a great deal of money, and especially where health care costs are increasing far greater than inflation in general. <<< I am not saying one can live very well on it- or at all-- but benefit increases are enormous. >>> Maybe not - but not every full-time job has to offer wages and benefits that a head-of-household can support a family on. There's room in the job market for a certain class of job that's not designed for lifetime employment by a head of household.
Originally Posted By KatieKate123 I used to be a cm at busch Gardens. Yes its not disney world, but I don't live in Fl I live in V.A. Anyways I loved my job, I got paid better than the disney workers though and I worked carts. I was in H.S and started out around 9 dollars a hour, and ended at 10 a hour 5 years later. So only a dollar increase in 5 years, but it was good money for a H.S right out of H.S gig. Only left Busch Gardens b/c we moved up to northern v.a. I actually make less now but not bad money considering I just started, and I don't have a college degree. 9.50 a hour. Now I do know that up here we make more than other places, because living is higher, but let me assure, you that if you do not go to school, you will have trouble making ends meet. Also, that is not Disney World's fault, should they pay as much as the local MC. D's depends on that, Mc. D's has no benefits well they have health insurance, but no other benefits. Like ex. getting into the parks for free, might not be a huge benefit when you work there but its still nice. Also do you guys get family passes free tickets etc? You have to take all of that in. My whole problem with people at Disney World back mouthing Disney is this in essence if you don't like it why don't you leave??? Most of you all do not have a contract binding you to Disney which means leave if you aren't happy. Go. Mc. Donalds pays more go to Mc. Donalds. obviously there is a reason people stay.
Originally Posted By Westsider I'm an hourly Cast Member at Disneyland. I'm a single adult male with no dependents. My main weekly insurance costs are the following; Cigna Medical/Vision/Mental, $6.50 Delta Dental, $1.50 $50,000 Life Insurance, Free Lifetime Disability Insurance, Free That's a total of $9.00 per week for me. I get two dental check-ups, cleanings and x-rays a year from a rather swanky Yorba Linda dentist and I never pay a dime. I have a great doctor who gives me a check up once a year and I'm never charged a cent because it's "preventative". I have had a couple of prescriptions off and on over the years, and my share of it is 5 dollars per 30 day supply. Cigna has a great network of urgent care options or specialists, but I've never had to use them. To be honest, I have no idea what some of these complaining Florida CM's are talking about. Working for Disney ain't exactly Shangri-la, but what is? But they take good care of us with our insurance plans, which are the exact same ones that salaried managers and executives also get. There isn't a class system when it comes to Disney insurance; a full time Jungle Cruise skipper has access to the same good plans as a Vice President does. I watched the Mousetrapped video on YouTube. And aside from stealing 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back, I was only left with the realization that most of those CM's are not dealing with a full deck. They have some serious life issues and have made some major life decisions that have impacted where they are in society, and Disney has no control over that. These folks are in a place in life they would still be in whether they worked for Disney or WalMart or McDonalds. Quite frankly, and quite bluntly, several of those folks on the YouTube video should be very thankful they got a spot at Disney, as they don't appear to have the skills or sophistication or education to get a better job. And yet they seem to expect a great deal from their employer, even with what they are bringing to the table from their side. The other interesting thing is that at least one of those guys in the video, mysteriously not given a name or WDW work location, has appeared in recent videos and interviews for the Disneyland hotel union causing all the problems here in Anaheim. Unite HERE in Florida obviously got him to perform as an interviewee to fill in some of the talking points they wanted to convey in this video, and they just sort of let you assume that he was a WDW Cast Member when in fact he is not. Interesting.
Originally Posted By Westsider Correction: It's $8.00 per week deducted from my paycheck for all my combined insurance benefits. Not 9 bucks, just 8. Score!
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt << she had an appendicitis-- $26K worth in 2 days.>> You got out cheap! My daughter spent 9 days at UMASS for over $30K! our cost $1200!
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl My niece and her husband work for Disney and they always talk about how great the insurance is. Can't beat $8 a week!
Originally Posted By disbiz I have to agree with some that say 3% increase is good. I work for P & G and their cost of living increases have always been around 3% every year and they are actually doing good in this economy. If I was to guess, they probably did a wage survey of the surrounding area and other amusement parks to see what the pay scale is to come up with the three percent. Actually, to lock in at 3% percent for the next three years isn't bad because there is no guarantee you'll even get that from year to year. I know from expierence.
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael <<Do CM's deserve more money and a living wage...of course they do. How much more depends on the nature of their job and the degree of skill involved to do it. To stand out in the parking lot and point in the direction that cars need to travel...not so much. Jobs requiring acting, singing or dancing...yes. Maintenance people that have to have an extensive knowledge of equipment and how to fix them...yes. People picking up trash...not so much. We may feel that the worst jobs should pay the most, but reality is that this won't happen>> I made $6.67 to drive watercraft transportation 3 years ago. Comforting? I wasn't there to make money, but most people are there to make a living. Disney reaps what they sow with the low labor costs and correspondingly poor transportation.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I never said that they shouldn't be paid more, nor would I ever work for that amount of money, but reality is reality and if competing businesses aren't paying more for a basically the same job, then it is what it is. There are apparently other perks that go with it that makes people willing to work for so little cash. I don't know, I'm just speculating.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 The one thing that I thought was right on in the video was the CM who said that since Disney is the largest employer in Central Florida with some 65,000 Cast Members, they are the ones who are setting the standard.
Originally Posted By Westsider I finally watched the full Mousetrapped 2010 video. (There's also a version from 2004, where they say pretty much the same stuff.) I get to say this because I'm a Disneyland Cast Member who has paid PLENTY into the union via monthly dues over the past decade.... Gawd people, could you Disney World kids lighten up and quit exagerrating and whining so much and blaming Disney for EVERYTHING wrong in your life?!? Some favorite quotes from these Florida CM's on the Mousetrapped video, some of whom appear to barely have a high school education and who don't have a lot of charm or polished presentation skills to fall back on, and my gut instinct response... Bryan, Transportation & Ticket Center: "I have to go to Amscot (sleazy payday advance place) to exist the last 3 days of the week before the paycheck comes out.... I can work 50 hours a week and bring home 165 dollars because of insurance and other deductions that come out of my paycheck." Westsider, Disneyland: Uh, dude, you are doing something very, very wrong here. Every Disney employee gets paid every Wednesday. If you can't budget for 7 whole days you must have a serious gambling problem or something. You work 50 hours and bring home 165 bucks? I call major shenanigans on that. Health insurance for a single male (and I'd bet my next paycheck you are single) is 8 bucks a week. Dental is a buck fifty extra. That's all the deductions Disney takes out. I don't know what "other deductions" are being removed from a 440 dollar 50 hour paycheck (assuming you are newer and make 8 bucks an hour) in Florida where they have no state taxes. But if you are losing 270 bucks a week in "other deductions", than either Uncle Sam is garnishing your wages for some past sin or you've got a half dozen child support payments to make to a spurned ex-wife in hiding. Doug, Animal Kingdom: "For me and my family to survive, we go to the churches. We go to the churches, and we get handouts." Westsider, Disneyland: Okay, I totally get that you aren't able to support your wife and kids on an 8 dollar an hour entry-level theme park job. But how is that Disney's fault? Many men purposely wait until they have a certain income level before they get married and have kids. It's part of being a responsible father. Doug, Animal Kingdom: "You've got Cast Members that are eligible for government assistance. So, Disney is using the government to subsidize the salaries of their Cast Members? That's just sad, and immoral, and wrong." Westsider, Disneyland: No, Disney is not using the government, the Cast Members are using the government. A single person working full time at WDW won't qualify for welfare, but a family of four or five with one breadwinner who works for 8 bucks an hour at WDW will qualify. Again, some big life decisions were made by the Cast Member to get to that point. That's not Disney's fault, nor would it be McDonald's or WalMart's or Starbucks fault, or any employer's fault. I'll leave the judgement on going on welfare as being immoral up to you. Kathleen, Magic Kingdom: "I don't know what I'm going to do. I had a house payment that I can't make payments on. I tried to get roommates, but because of our mortgage rate, it was during that boom when they were approving everyone for mortgages... so I ended up going through banktrupcy, and for the past three years I've had to live at home, I have no credit anymore." Westsider, Disneyland: Wow. This is a big bucket of hard times, and it's tough. But how exactly is that Disney's fault again? Was Donald Duck your mortgage broker and you couldn't understand what he was saying? Was Cruella de Vil your realtor, and she threatened you into buying that house you couldn't afford? If not, I'm not sure how Disney or any other private employer would be responsible for you not making your mortgage payments that you couldn't afford to begin with, especially if you lost the house back in '07 before things got really bad and the real estate market totally tanked. There should be some personal responsibility there, but you aren't displaying it on your YouTube debut. Unnamed WDW Cast Member: "I have a Cast Member that currently works with me, and she had to file for banktrupcy because her daughters moved out, and then they lost their jobs and divorced and moved back with mommy. And then mommy is just making what our senior Cast Members make and she goes to church just to get food so they can have food in the pantry. She does a lot of garage sales because she's just not making it." Westsider, Disneyland: Another hard luck story of loser family members depending on one single Cast Member working for 10 bucks an hour and trying to support a large extended family? That's not Disney's fault, nor is it Disney's responsibility. End of story. Jim, Downtown Disney: "They don't care about the workers. Their bottom line is how much money can we send to California. They don't care about the people here in Florida, they never have. Yes, they do a lot of charitable stuff. But that's just to try to make them look good. The actual people who have to receive their charity are the Disney workers. They have to go and get food stamps because they can't afford to feed their families. So Disney giving all this money to these charities and saying 'look at how great we are' are actually just feeding their own workers because they won't give it to them in their pay." Westsider, Disneyland: What a cynical and misguided outlook on Disney's charitable work. Where do you even begin with a life outlook like that one? This video goes on and on, with many hilarious quotes and opinions. There are a couple valid points raised in the video, but they are slathered over in such ridiculous hyperbole and slimy union propaganda that their point is lost. I particularly LOVE the guy who gets so upset about the Cheez-It remark made at the negotiating table. Dude, it was a joke, relax. You get to keep your pension. Management doesn't really think you are a Cheez-It. I don't think you are a Cheez-It. Just breathe. These types of union YouTube exercises are really quite sad, because I think some of the CM's interviewed for these things really buy into it and believe what the union tells them. Interestingly, there's a couple folks on this "Florida" video who work for the Unite HERE! local union in Anaheim. But they were obviously used, without a name or WDW work location mentioned, to try and fill in the more legit interviews of Floridians with the talking points the union wanted to get across. It's all pretty slimy if you ask me, but it does make for some funny YouTube viewing. The Florida CM's sound like they are about to lose the 500 dollar Christmas bonus Disney was offering them to sign now and take the 3.5% raise in January. But the union will drag this out, the CM's will be the one who lose by not getting a bonus and only delaying their raises. It's sad really. But at least the YouTube video offers some laughs. Pass the Cheez-Its, please.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Obviously this is a union tool. But the facts are still pertinent. The average CM at WDW is starting at $7.65 an hour. It is not a livable wage. A single workers insurance was raised $3.00 a week. A CM with a family saw an $8.00 increase in just their health insurance. The raise barely covers the increase in insurance. Also your info is a little off. The raises would kick in at the end of April not in January. I expect that DL CM's start out at a higher pay rate. A little over $9.00 an hour is my understanding.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The average CM at WDW is starting at $7.65 an hour. It is not a livable wage. >>> The larger question is whether or not Disney owes a "living wage" to starting CMs hired into positions that require no experience and perhaps no particular education (or high school at most). I don't think this is a Disney issue - it's an America issue. Also, consider that minimum wage is $7.25 an hour with no benefits. When you take a starting wage of $7.65 an hour, and add the substantial benefits of health, dental, and life insurance, paid vacation and paid sick leave (none of which are required benefits), the starting Disney CM position you refer to could easily have a total compensation well above $10/hour, substantially above minimum wage. Given a free job market, if Disney is able to fill these positions, then an economist would probably say that the compensation is within what supply and demand dictates for those positions. <<< I expect that DL CM's start out at a higher pay rate. A little over $9.00 an hour is my understanding. >>> I also expect that the cost of living in one of the Orange Counties is substantially higher than in the other - probably even more so than the disparity in stating wages.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Damn, I like Westsider's thinking." I agree with it except for the first part. Businesses do rely on public assistance so that they can pay their employees a living wage. Disney used to pay CMs much better than minimum wage. When I was a college student in the early 80's my roommate got a summer job at DL bussing tables at the now in Yesterland Tahitian Terrace. IIRC he was paid about twice the minimum wage at the time and was thrilled to get the job. That said I will acknowledge that Disney does provide its employees with affordable health insurance. At my white collar professional job I pay about $400 per month for health, dental and vision coverage for my family.
Originally Posted By TP2000 sjhym333<< "The raise barely covers the increase in insurance." Actually, the raise covers it quite handily. Did you see the exact figures that Disney actually offered? It was very generous, and included clear raises above and beyond the increase in insurance costs. The link to the union's own contract update... <a href="http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/Bes...%2010.2.10.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.uniteherelocal362.o...2.10.pdf</a> from their own website... <a href="http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/" target="_blank">http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/</a> Disney's "Best offer" on 10/1/2010 included; 25 to 35 cent per hour annual raises, minus 8 cent per hour higher insurance costs, equals 17 to 27 cent per hour raise each year Plus $650 bonus if they approved the contract on 10/1/2010 The union recommended a No vote on 10/1/2010, so the CM's have already lost a $100 ratification bonus. The union has now refused to offer a vote on that best offer that Disney isn't budging on, and the $550 remaining bonus appears to be hanging by a thread if it's not already been yanked by Disney. So the union just rebuffed Disney's offer of guaranteed raises every year for four years plus a nice Christmas bonus. A bizarre move from the union turning down such a generous offer in these times, if you ask me. My hat is off to Westsider for watching the entire Mousetrapped 2010 video. (It speaks VOLUMES that there is a near identical version still up from 2004, from this same union.) I could only get about 5 minutes into the video before all the self-entitlement and bitter blame turned me off from these folks arguments in their favor. The middle-aged guys in the video seemed especially pathetic, as they quite clearly don't have skills or polish to get anything better than the current entry-level jobs they have at Disney. One would think they'd be very grateful for what they have at Disney, but apparently not. They're expecting a 50K per year job sweeping a theme park with their education level and presentation skills? They are delusional, at best.
Originally Posted By TP2000 I'll try again with the link to the exact monetary details of Disney's generous wage/benefits offer... <a href="http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/Best%20summary%20flier%20-%2010.2.10.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.uniteherelocal362.o...2.10.pdf</a>
