Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am the god of hell fire and I bring you fastpasses. I mean fire. While we're at it, can we add Dining plan, refillable mugs, strollers, Emvs, DVC, Gay Days and Walmart???!!! Many thanks.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << But FP wasn't designed solely for the purpose of the guest experience, it's only marketed that way. It was designed to get people out of lines and (conceivably)into shops and restaurants. >> FP was originally conceived as a response to the number one complaint of Disney guests over the years -- long lines. In survey after survey, long lines comes up as the number one guest dissatisfier. There weren't any other motives to creating FP aside from addressing this guest dissatisfier. When FP was introduced, it was only on a few very popular attractions. It wasn't intended as a shop/restaurant filler. However, it quickly became apparent that increased guest spending in shops/restaurants was an outcome in areas where the FP rides were operating. This was a complete surprise and unintended consequence that was measured by Disney managers. As a result, Disney greatly expanded FP beyond the initial handful of E-Tickets. So, I think an accurate way to portray this systems is one that was conceived and implemented to improve guest satisfaction. The over-expansion of FP over the years into attractions that really didn't need it and into too many attractions in close proximity was a result of trying to create an impact on merchandise/food sales. I think we all know that there were unintended consequences to the exapansion of FP as well.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But we are seeing retraction too. It's no longer used on certain attractions anymore, and that's a positive. I have to say, I think fastpasses where there is a height restriction work well. My wife and I are more likely to get to ride Splash Mountain or Expedition Everest if we know the kids only need to wait 20 - 30 mins for mom and dad to get back. If it were 2 hours, then we would be relegated to the family friendly attractions only (although I wish Disney concentrated their efforts on these again) for 10 - 12 years. For that, I give the FP's a thunbs up.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I can totally buy that FP was designed to enhance the guest experience, but I cannot buy that they didn't think it through, and it was a "complete surprise and unintended consequence" with regards to shopping and dining.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> And just who keeps bringing the can of gasoline? Umm... YOU << Maybe. But in this case the original purpose of this thread was about ECV's and wheelchairs being used by people who don't really need them, sometimes for the purpose of beating lines. Effectively, an FP for purchase.
Originally Posted By Labuda My $.02 here... I like FP, but I do recall lines moving fast for me in the olden days on the few rides we went on when I firt visited WDW - MK only, on July 15, 1987. On that day, the longest we waited in line was 45 minutes - for the canoes. For everything else, we were pretty much on within 20 to 25 minutes. In Mid-July, that's pretty darned impressive, I think! Oh, and yes, even though it was 20 years ago (wow), it was crowded!
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Just out of curiosity, why did you wait 45 minutes for the canoes? I know they may look like fun, but there is nothing like manual labor in the muggy Florida summer to put a damper on the magic.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I have gone on record many times stating that I thought FP was a bad idea and nothing I have heard or seen changes that. Again, it is the ones with the FP that think it is great. Unfortunately the vast majority cannot get one, for whatever reason. It has to be those that Disney needs to be concerned about as much as the have's. Maybe more! I know that it is almost a right of passage to talk about the wait in line factor but when the majority line goes slower so the minority can go first you have a public relations problem of some magnitude. We always complained about the wait in line but no one was angry about it. The reason for that was that everyone was being treated equally. First come, first served. Some impatience from the type A's out there but no real anger. That is not the case anymore and that cannot be good. I think we are starting to see evidence that the FP is being re-evaluated. Some places that had FP before have lost them. They really can't get rid of them soon enough for me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo They do indeed still go in DL. I think it was the first attraction at DLP to die though :-(
Originally Posted By Labuda "Just out of curiosity, why did you wait 45 minutes for the canoes?" Because that's how long the line was. "I know they may look like fun, but there is nothing like manual labor in the muggy Florida summer to put a damper on the magic." Oh, pshaw! The canoes were an absolute BLAST! Great corny jokes, and fun, fun, fun to travel around the Rivers of America in that manner!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My $.02 here... I like FP, but I do recall lines moving fast for me in the olden days on the few rides we went on when I firt visited WDW - MK only, on July 15, 1987. On that day, the longest we waited in line was 45 minutes - for the canoes. For everything else, we were pretty much on within 20 to 25 minutes. In Mid-July, that's pretty darned impressive, I think! Oh, and yes, even though it was 20 years ago (wow), it was crowded!< HOWEVER, surely not my memories of my visits those years in the mid to late 80s and early 90's - those of us with kids in school go during summer months...and the waits were consistently 90 minutes for most everything and longer for really good stuff....rarley did we ride most of the attractions we wanted to in any particular visit. At that time the reason we stopped going to Universal was after waiting 3 hours for Back to the Future or Kongfrontation -- just wasn't worth the time any more to go there.... No system works for everyone -- FP works for many people, and yes I am aware that many who arrive in the afternoon - or for events later in the day find FP's out on SOME rides, not all. And my experience is that many of these people are locals who CAN go every day if they so choose, so I guess I am not crying a river there, although yes I understand your comments over it. Paying for it fixes nothing....in fact only adds to the increasing costs everywhere that are usually bemoaned here. ( Like the new $10 valet parking fee since they went 3rd party) - creating more separation of classes can never be a good thing from a tension standpoint....I just don't see that as a viable option. So if I enter a ride in the FP line, because I paid for that privilege I should expect people to be happy about it ? I am thinking not. FP has allowed our family to ride rides like Space Mountain while the kids were younger because someone would entertain them for 20 minutes or so instead of 2 hours - exactly as Davewasbaloo mentions. As a 1 - 2 trip a year visitor , I can tell you it works for me and for many others who travel there the approximate same amount. I cannot jet there anytime I want for any special event...should I complain that they should hold those events every day of the year so that I can also attend...no. Yet because someone chooses to arrive in the afternoon, those who arrive early should have that privilege taken away from them. That is not all about ME any more than the other way around.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My $.02 here... I like FP, but I do recall lines moving fast for me in the olden days on the few rides we went on when I firt visited WDW - MK only, on July 15, 1987. On that day, the longest we waited in line was 45 minutes - for the canoes. For everything else, we were pretty much on within 20 to 25 minutes. In Mid-July, that's pretty darned impressive, I think! Oh, and yes, even though it was 20 years ago (wow), it was crowded!< HOWEVER, surely not my memories of my visits those years in the mid to late 80s and early 90's - those of us with kids in school go during summer months...and the waits were consistently 90 minutes for most everything and longer for really good stuff....rarley did we ride most of the attractions we wanted to in any particular visit. At that time the reason we stopped going to Universal was after waiting 3 hours for Back to the Future or Kongfrontation -- just wasn't worth the time any more to go there.... No system works for everyone -- FP works for many people, and yes I am aware that many who arrive in the afternoon - or for events later in the day find FP's out on SOME rides, not all. And my experience is that many of these people are locals who CAN go every day if they so choose, so I guess I am not crying a river there, although yes I understand your comments over it. Paying for it fixes nothing....in fact only adds to the increasing costs everywhere that are usually bemoaned here. ( Like the new $10 valet parking fee since they went 3rd party) - creating more separation of classes can never be a good thing from a tension standpoint....I just don't see that as a viable option. So if I enter a ride in the FP line, because I paid for that privilege I should expect people to be happy about it ? I am thinking not. FP has allowed our family to ride rides like Space Mountain while the kids were younger because someone would entertain them for 20 minutes or so instead of 2 hours - exactly as Davewasbaloo mentions. As a 1 - 2 trip a year visitor , I can tell you it works for me and for many others who travel there the approximate same amount. I cannot jet there anytime I want for any special event...should I complain that they should hold those events every day of the year so that I can also attend...no. Yet because someone chooses to arrive in the afternoon, those who arrive early should have that privilege taken away from them. That is not all about ME any more than the other way around.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Again, it is the ones with the FP that think it is great. Unfortunately the vast majority cannot get one, for whatever reason.< what body of work came up with the fact that the GREAT MAJORITY cannot get one ? With the amount that are churned out every day compared to the number of visitors, how is that factual ? Many rides still have FP available well into early evening....and later. No Soarin does not and usually test Track does not...but that has as much to do with no lines for Mission Space as it has to do with anything else. <<We always complained about the wait in line but no one was angry about it. << the lines I was in people always complained, so I guess they were all tpye A's.
Originally Posted By Elderp I know this is the DW section but I would like to say that when the subs come out in DL then we we will see what the world was like when there was no FP. I remember both Star Tours and Indiana Jones very well and I am personally grateful for not having to relieve the experience.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Again, it is the ones with the FP that think it is great. Unfortunately the vast majority cannot get one, for whatever reason.< I have a hard time with this statement, as does my friend vbdad. There are absolutely NO reasons why someone can't take advantage of the FP system. Like any other system that has limited capacity, FP is going to run out on a busy day. There is no guarantee with the FP system that you're going to get one on a busy day, but the option is open to everyone equally. It's like saying Disney parks are unfair because I can't ride Splash Mountain on a busy summer day with less than a 3 hour wait. Of COURSE you can - get there early, just like you did before FP. And I completely disagree that this system somehow becomes more fair if it becomes a pay system. I'd still use it, but as others have said it becomes an even larger separator along economic lines, and thus more unfair in my eyes.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "Because that's how long the line was." Ok, that response just made my day. : )
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> but the option is open to everyone equally << "...who comes early." I know there are those of you who consider this "fair" and "equal." I personally think it would be fairer if it allowed EVERYONE who came into the park AT ANY TIME to get at least one FP for that day. How to implement that? I don't know. Disney can work that out.
