Originally Posted By jonvn "the example you sent Utahjosh (thanks) " What UtahJosh just posted was deranged and false.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yup… the ACLU despises religious people. Right. <<DETROIT -- After exhausting all avenues in the Michigan courts, the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan today filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of a Catholic man who was criminally punished for not completing a Pentecostal drug rehabilitation program. “This man was punished for insisting on the right to practice Catholicism and refusing conversion to the Pentecostal faith,†said Kary Moss, ACLU of Michigan Executive Director. “The Michigan courts would not acknowledge his First Amendment rights, but we’re confident that the federal court will.â€>> Source: <a href="http://thecityofgod.blogspot.com/2005/12/aclu-defends-catholic-man.html" target="_blank">http://thecityofgod.blogspot.c om/2005/12/aclu-defends-catholic-man.html</a>
Originally Posted By DAR <<To protect the innocent and allow justice. So more people can live>> Never really said I was against war or the death penalty. <<Liberals support the criminal and guilty, which creates more victims, therefore, more death.>> I can personally tell you that is a big steaming pile of crap. I currently have a cousin serving year 12 of a possible 30 year sentence. Four other teenagers(at the time) and him were planning to sell marijuana to another kid their age. But the plan was take the money and marijuana. Well both parties brought a gun to the proceedings. The buyer was shot dead on the spot. Three of the kids are out because of deals they made. The shooter is scheduled to get out soon. My cousin got the stiffiest sentence because he was the mastermind behind the whole thing and didn't show one bit of remorse. The judge presiding over the case at the time was probably one of the most bleeding heart liberal judges this city and state has ever known and had no problem giving my cousin his sentence.
Originally Posted By DAR <<"that government knows best" Not really, no.>> That isn't exclusive to liberals or conservatives.
Originally Posted By utahjosh "the example you sent Utahjosh (thanks) " <<What UtahJosh just posted was deranged and false.>> Jonvn, I believe he's talking about the link I posted, not my satire post 12 in response to your opinion (not facts, either) in post 9.
Originally Posted By woody Jonvn: Ask and you will receive. <a href="http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/01/16/aclu-defends-prayer-ban-at-vmi.htm" target="_blank">http://atheism.about.com/b/200 4/01/16/aclu-defends-prayer-ban-at-vmi.htm</a> ACLU Defends Prayer Ban at VMI In 2002, a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that mealtime prayers at the Virginia Military Institute (a state-funded military college) violated the constitutional separation of church and state. The full court refused to hear an appeal and so VMI has appealed to the Supreme Court. The Daily Press of Virginia reports on the ACLU's argument that the Supreme Court doesn't need to take the case: First-year students were required to attend the pre-dinner prayer gathering, the ACLU said, while upperclass students were not. Though the prayers were voluntary, the appeals panel found that the Lexington school's emphasis on conformity pressured cadets to participate in a religious exercise. Evening prayers had been a tradition at VMI since at least the 1950s, except for about five years in the early 1990s, when cadets didn't all eat dinner together. Before the meal was served, a member of the cadet corps read a nondenominational prayer that began with either "Almighty God," "O God," "Father God," "Heavenly Father," or "Sovereign God."
Originally Posted By utahjosh ***NOTE*** My post 12 was a satire of Jonvn's post. It wasn't as funny as I hoped, but I tried. It was a play on what Jonvn posted in post 9. Not meant to be my sincere actual beliefs. (though they are pretty similar) That is all. ***
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <This thread went from zero to Woody in 6.3 seconds. > LOL! Too true! Here we have a Canadian guy asking a legitimate question about US politics, getting a couple of legit answers... and then the bombs start getting thrown.
Originally Posted By woody More: <a href="http://madtechspeaks.blogspot.com/2006/01/counselman-says-no-to-aclu-prayer.html" target="_blank">http://madtechspeaks.blogspot. com/2006/01/counselman-says-no-to-aclu-prayer.html</a> It is happening all across the nation. The ACLU sue city counsel after city counsel over praying in Jesus name. They don't sue to stop all prayer, but in every case the target has been Christian prayer. They even fought for the right of a Wiccan to pray at a counsel meeting. Many times it doesn't even take a lawsuit. They just type up a threatening letter and that does the trick. This was the case in Fredericksburg. But one man isn't taking things lying down. Fredericksburg City Councilman Hashmel Turner has filed suit against his fellow council members, saying the council’s newly adopted prayer policy violates his constitutional rights.
Originally Posted By jonvn "First-year students were required to attend the pre-dinner prayer gathering" I figured you would put up something like that. This is about government directed prayer, not an individual praying.
Originally Posted By utahjosh jonvn and woody came with guns loaded. I tried to give a good, sincere answer, but got sucked into the battle. I'm trying to keep some dignity by not fighting back.
Originally Posted By woody >>I figured you would put up something like that. This is about government directed prayer, not an individual praying.<< That's always the argument, but the ACLU allows an exception (many exceptions) for non-Christian prayers.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Though the prayers were voluntary, the appeals panel found that the Lexington school's emphasis on conformity pressured cadets to participate in a religious exercise.> The ACLU has a good point here. A state-sponsored institution has no business pressuring people to be any particular religion, or religious at all. And, as jon's previous link showed, if people religious rights in the PRIVATE sphere get intruded upon, the ACLU has oftentimes supported them.
Originally Posted By woody >>And, as jon's previous link showed, if people religious rights in the PRIVATE sphere get intruded upon, the ACLU has oftentimes supported them.<< Often not in private prayers as well. Where's the ACLU when Christian groups get kicked out of colleges and universities?
Originally Posted By jonvn "That's always the argument, but the ACLU allows an exception (many exceptions) for non-Christian prayers." Well, no. State directed prayer is what they are against, as well they should be.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Where's the ACLU when Christian groups get kicked out of colleges and universities?" And where and when is this? Circumstances?
