Originally Posted By DAR <<I do have some baseball and nascar shirts>> Uh there's nothing really "rednecky" about baseball
Originally Posted By MPierce ^^^It is if you get drunk, and yell obscenities at the umpire as security is escorting you from the park.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I think all of Animal Planet(well maybe not Dinoland USA) is very visionary.< Animal Planet - cable network. Animal Kingdom - Disney theme park.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I believe that from the time WDW added Epcot, Disney saw WDW as a "destination resort" and made it a priority to keep people on property./// Well they seriously blew it big time by unnecessarily erecting more parks/hotels so damn far from each other creating an incentive for people to drive! Anyone with an IQ of 80 or higher should have figured that once a Beach Club guest has to exit his hotel and head out to the parking lot to take his bloody car just to have dinner **while on vacation no less** over at Animal Kingdom Lodge then maybe he just might drive on out the main gate instead and hit the multitude of eats for 30-45% less cost.... especially if he has 2 children a wife and Aunt Edna to feed.
Originally Posted By barboy Under my model if Disney would have kept their individual resorts and parks far more reachable by foot or electric tram as opposed to those dreadful noise machines(buses) then more guests would stay on property. Once a guest relies on his rental car or his minivan which he drove from Virginia he just might be inclined to stay off property at Howard Johnsons and dine at I-Hop and Pizzeria Uno.
Originally Posted By Mr X I agree, but I don't think the parks and hotels would have to be closer to each other to accomplish that. If they'd shelled out the bucks for a REAL comprehensive monorail system (one which serviced MOST of the hotels as well as ALL of the parks, and which could be utilized to get anywhere making only one connection such as it is for Magic Kingdom - Epcot), and enhanced that with some other neat stuff LIKE electric trams or peoplemovers, or other creative forms of transportation..noone would need to rent a car. PLUS, it would be fun and still feel like "vacation" every step of the way (being stuck on a packed city bus after a 30 minute wait sure doesn't!).
Originally Posted By barboy Interesting X, very interesting indeed about a far more comprehensive monorail system. Would it be cheaper than the purchase costs of the extensive bus fleet, driver wages/taxes/workmans comp, gas, vehicle insurance and maintenance??? It might be.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I remember that the number tossed around when I was at WDW in the early 90s was 'a million dollars per mile' to build the monorail -- which made it cost prohibitive -- giving them an excuse to not build the monorail to connect to Disney-MGM Studios and then Animal Kingdom.
Originally Posted By Mr X And yet they were able to construct a far more elaborate (and I'd imagine, more expensive) monorail system in Tokyo decades later. Where there's a will, there's a way. I don't see why they couldn't charge money for it, for one thing. Get a high tech company on board to sponsor the thing as publicity, etc, etc...it's not as if that big honking bus system they use is free to operate and maintain, after all! As far as the extent of the thing, it seems to me that all you'd really need to do would be to extend the Epcot line (perhaps after Epcot station, just make a U-Turn pretty much and go behind the park) over to the Yacht and Beach, the Dolphin, and MGM, and then shoot back up to the TTC. Not much more milage really. Then they'd only need one more line to connect the TTC to DAK and AKL...Downtown Disney is the biggest problem in terms of miles I think. DAK is actually quite close to the TTC believe it or not (can't drive there, but it's close actually). Anyway, there was plans for just such a system ever since even before MGM was created, I've seen them on paper...but somewhere along the line someone decided city buses were more magical, I guess.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Anyone with an IQ of 80 or higher should have figured that once a Beach Club guest has to exit his hotel and head out to the parking lot to take his bloody car just to have dinner **while on vacation no less** over at Animal Kingdom Lodge then maybe he just might drive on out the main gate instead and hit the multitude of eats for 30-45% less cost...< Barboy, while I think you're correct in stating that a comprehensive (non-bus) transportation system would have been very effective at keeping people on property, I don't agree that just using your own car for transport means that you're more likely to go off property. Or at least, it's not that way for me. I always drive, either from Dallas or from the Orlando airport. And once I'm on property I'm loathe to leave it. A drive through the sculptured grounds to a neighboring hotel to get dinner is just another gift of the WDW property.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't agree that just using your own car for transport means that you're more likely to go off property. Or at least, it's not that way for me.*** While it might not be more likely for you, it is certainly "more likely" in general. Just using your car for transport TOTALLY means you're more likely to go off property. Think of it this way. If you have no car, you won't (or it's highly UNlikely, anyway). If you have a car, you very well might. Meaning, some folks will do it if they have wheels. I certainly would, and have. I have no particular "loathing" with driving off property (OMG! ). Certainly not to drive 5 minutes further down the road in exchange for superior food at half the price. Or, for that matter, to take in some other local attractions, shop for sundries at a HIGHLY reduced price, or even take a ride to the beach perhaps. Wheels make all that stuff possible (and bad for the Rat). But, that's just me. I'm sure Disney would, ideally, take everyone's car keys away the moment they check in though. And I, for one, wouldn't even mind surrendering them IF the place were monorail equipped (or something equally interesting and fun). To give up the dashboard for a crowded city bus though? No thanks!
Originally Posted By danyoung >To give up the dashboard for a crowded city bus though? No thanks!< On this we completely agree. I can't see that there would have been any way of building a comprehensive transportation system without the busses, at least with how the hotels are located. And even with the busses it's hard to get from one hotel to another. I can't see that this would be any easier with a super-monorail system. There's just no way to have monorails going EVERYWHERE on property. I don't have a problem with the busses per se, but they're just not for me. I can get where I want, when I want, and in the order I want, if I have my own vehicle. But dining at Disney eateries is part of the vacation for me. I can eat at a Red Lobster or Ponderosa back home. There's only one California Grill or Coral Reef or Bistro de Paris!
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, I understand that (and I'd probably be another of those folks like you that wants my wheels no matter what...EVEN if the monorail system was a lot better (though I'd surely use it quite a bit)). But, with wheels comes freedom, and I'm very okay with going rogue as a Disney patron, and actually daring to leave the premises if it is worthwhile to do so. (customers like me, they probably don't want lol)
Originally Posted By Mr X Heck, you pretty much need a car to even go to Kitty O'Shea's, right? And who the heck would want to miss THAT unique and wonderful experience? (except for all you "on property" folks, who are missing out on a WHOLE lot of fun)
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Under my model if Disney would have kept their individual resorts and parks far more reachable by foot or electric tram as opposed to those dreadful noise machines(buses) then more guests would stay on property. << >> I agree, but I don't think the parks and hotels would have to be closer to each other to accomplish that. If they'd shelled out the bucks for a REAL comprehensive monorail system (one which serviced MOST of the hotels as well as ALL of the parks, and which could be utilized to get anywhere making only one connection such as it is for Magic Kingdom - Epcot), and enhanced that with some other neat stuff LIKE electric trams or peoplemovers, or other creative forms of transportation..noone would need to rent a car. PLUS, it would be fun and still feel like "vacation" every step of the way (being stuck on a packed city bus after a 30 minute wait sure doesn't!). << Both ideas or excellent, however you over looked the fact that moves like this require long term vision, and money. They have the money just not the vision. They believe they can offer you a dining plan that's got people convinced how great a deal it is. So they are counting on the folks already paying for their meals up front so they will stay on property, and have a selection of food from dumbed down menus. Now isn't that much more Magical than an efficient, and modern transportation system.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad We always drive down. Besides the money, I can't imagine not having a car at Disney. We will drive to things like DTD or AK because the bus ride is so long. We also drive if we think we will be at a park till closing (except MK)so we won't have to wait in a long bus line when we are already tired from a long day in the parks. We also go off property for a few meals at night and to get groceries........................................................................................One thing I don't understand about the meal plan ,is how can people lock in to be at certain restaurants at certain times on certain days for a whole week. My touring plan flexes based on crowds and weather. We can schedule 1 or 2 meals but I would hate to lose my park hoping freedom. I just don't get the value.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Balancing dinner reservations and fast passes for 10 people (7 adults) made for a very difficult time.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad When we were there, even when it seemed crowded, there weren't many people in the lines. At one point I asked my wife,"do you think all these people are waiting for reservations or something?", because more people seemed to be walking around than riding rides. If you think about it, a dinner probably takes a hour or an hour and a half, and the counter service could take 30 to 45 minutes so that can tie up a significant number of people for a significant amount of time.(especially if they have 2 sit down meals).
Originally Posted By Skellington88 The only thing that I can think of that is even remotely "visionary" is Expedition Everest and the facade front of Mission:Space (even though the attraction is terrible). Although I am in awe at how low disney let there standards fall and that takes a real visionary in management to accomplsih.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 congradulations phil holmes and jay rasolu you severly tarnished the image of a great american icon and formerly fun vacation destination.
