Originally Posted By Sara Tonin It won't do any good to keep pointing out the truth to him. The LDS puts their doctrine into their followers heads and fills the rest of the space with sawdust and puts a cork in so nothing else can go in. It's sad, but it's so true.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<The only thing marriage encourages is stable relationships.>> <And families and children.> No. Children are not a requirement for marriage and never have been. And gay families also raise children. Stability should especially be encouraged in those marriages. <<Well, Josh, we form relationships too. Shouldn't stability be encouraged for us? Or are we not good enough?>> <You won't like my answer. I don't believe homosexual relationships will improve our society the way the traditional family does.> I don't like the answer because it says that some people are superior and others are inferior. That's called bigotry. You won't like that answer.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>The LDS puts their doctrine into their followers heads and fills the rest of the space with sawdust and puts a cork in so nothing else can go in. It's sad, but it's so true.<<< How does this differ from the dogma of other religions?
Originally Posted By MOLLYSMOM What the heck is considered a "traditional family" nowadays? I'm a divorced mom with a daughter, living with the same man for over 10 years. I suppose I am not a "traditional" family. Am I to believe that I do not "improve society the way a TRADITIONAL family does?"
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Mollysmom - sounds pretty trad to me. I do believe in family values. By that, I mean a loving, supporting family whatever form it takes (I think Mrs Doubtfire's ending has a wonderful monologue about families).
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'm a divorced mom with a daughter, living with the same man for over 10 years. I suppose I am not a "traditional" family. <Am I to believe that I do not "improve society the way a TRADITIONAL family does?" > I believe overall divorce DOES have a negative effect on children in the majority of cases, and does not aid in improving society.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Note: I'm not I'm always against divorce, but I think it should be avoided if possible. Abuse & other such cases are noted.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Why can't you just live your own life and stop telling others how to live? Why is it so hard to believe in something and not force those beliefs on others?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It won't do any good to keep pointing out the truth to him> Because it's not the truth. If it were advocates of State-recognized gay marriage could present their case with facts and logic, rather than shrill rhetoric. They'd present their evidence that recognizing gay marriage was good for society and let an informed people vote, instead of running to judges to overturn laws.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <<<The only thing marriage encourages is stable relationships.> And families and children.>>> Okay Josh let me see if I understand this correctly.... You think it is better for unwanted children to sit in "only in it for the money" foster homes or a group home situation - only to have them put on the streets at 18 because they have aged out - Rather than be adopted in a loving commited relationship - between two people regardless of the couple's genders? Is this correct Josh? And yes I know there are plenty of good foster homes... but unfortunately there are way too many that are only in it for the money.
Originally Posted By markymouse ">>>The LDS puts their doctrine into their followers heads and fills the rest of the space with sawdust and puts a cork in so nothing else can go in. It's sad, but it's so true.<<< How does this differ from the dogma of other religions?" davewasbaloo asks a good question. But I happen to have an answer ready. The Catholic church made very clear their extreme opposition to gay marriage. Yet, polls suggested Catholics leaned against Prop 8. The Mormon church also made very clear their extreme opposition to gay marriage. Its members contributed three quarters of the money to fight it. In a church, people take advice from their leaders as one part of how they make their decision. In a cult ... There, Prop H8 has finally brought me solidly into the anti Mormon camp. Yep, yesterday was a great day for tolerance in America, all right.
Originally Posted By MOLLYSMOM Dave...I thought that the scene in Mrs. Doubtfire you referred to was wonderful as well. Families take many forms, and each loving, caring family no matter what its make up "improves society." And yes, Josh...DD and I were abused.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>>I believe overall divorce DOES have a negative effect on children in the majority of cases, and does not aid in improving society.<<<< Funny, I would say people living in a loveless marriage for "the sake of the children" do far more harm.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Douglas: "They'd present their evidence that recognizing gay marriage was good for society and let an informed people vote, instead of running to judges to overturn laws." What a crock of you-know-what. The EVIDENCE was brought to the Supremes in California and guess what? They ruled in favor of gay marriage. Just because the mob voted against it doesn't mean it's right. Think about it for a second. If the majority of people thought that Mormonism was a dangerous cult and should be outlawed, would that make it true? How about you or any of the other bigots out there present REAL EVIDENCE that gay marriage hurts anyone??? It's been asked for numerous times and no one has brought anything. And yet we present numerous cases of how activity within the hetero community has demeaned marriage more than gay people ever could. Your argument is not based on facts. It is not based on truth. It is based solely on blind faith. Admit it.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Admit it.<< Not only is this horse dead, it's no longer even recognizable as a horse carcass. It's just a big pavement stain with a well-tenderized horsehide on it, and 4 horseshoes. When you gonna stop beating it?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>What a crock of you-know-what. The EVIDENCE was brought to the Supremes in California and guess what? They ruled in favor of gay marriage. Just because the mob voted against it doesn't mean it's right.<<< But by this assertion does that make you a greater believer in meritocracy over democracy, because it sure sounds that way.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <And yes, Josh...DD and I were abused.> Glad you got out of that bad situation. Abuse is far worse than divorce. They aren't even comparable.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf utahjosh: "Note: I'm not I'm always against divorce, but I think it should be avoided if possible. Abuse & other such cases are noted." Yes, divorce can be bad. In fact, it can harm children far more than gay marriage ever could. How about you go after that next? Or unprotected sex? Or alcohol? Why go after gay marriage when there are so many other things that are dangerous to society? I swear....I just don't get it.
