Originally Posted By mawnck >>only the Mormon Church came out as a Church for this.<< That's not true. A number of other conservative-minded churches were in on it, as was the international Focus on the Family ministry. The Mormons just provided most of the money and most of the promotional expertise.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "But we still fight for what's right." But it isn't right to extend a civil liberties to someone and then take them away. Do you not see that the injustice here?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>They sent money from another state to fund a proposition in my state!! That is wrong.<<< I believe you are right, but to them, this could seem like an Amnesty International type thing in the name of their prophets. Sad, but probably true.
Originally Posted By markymouse So what was it? Age and party played a big part. Prop h8 failed big time among young voters, but passed very comfortably among voters over 50. Prop h8 failed by a wide margin among registered Democrats, but passed by a huge margin among Republicans. Rural California is very Republican. Gun toting, the whole cliche. They just have a harder time smoking in restaurants. Otherwise they could be in Wyoming or Idaho. Look at county by county results, and you'll see Prop h8 passing by 75 to 25 everywhere except the coast (and Sacramento). Southern California is pretty darned Republican and conservative. Orange County and San Diego isn't Arnold social moderate Republican territory. It is conservative. Period. The Bay Area is progressive, but not universally. Except in San Francisco and maybe Alameda and Marin counties, a third of voters in the Bay Area voted for Prop h8. Politicians put their careers first, and do not take risks. Barack Obama needed moderate voters in pretty socially conservative areas like Florida, Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. A sound bite implying Obama supports gay marriage might have hurt him. He wasn't willing to take that chance. A lot of people missed the part in that wonderful famous speech when Obama said "And we all have some gay friends in the red states ... whom I won't lift a finger to help because it might cost me Ohio." Arnold - I'm too tired to look up how to spell his last name - also didn't want to be caught campaigning for gay rights. Though there isn't a single Republican who could touch him in any statewide primary, he's not going to take any chances. Bill Clinton did robocalls against Prop h8. Sixteen years AFTER we needed him, he was there for us. As penance for Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA, Clinton should have knocked on every door in Arkansas asking them not to let children bounce around group homes instead of be with safe loving foster parents who happen to be gay. Diane Feinstein did ads against Prop h8. I applaud her. She will have my undying gratitude. Gavin Newsom will not. His "whether they like it or not" on that ad was the beginning of the end for us. One arrogant straight ally did as much against us as ... The Mormons. Tolerance is really, really at risk in my world today. Because while the kids are playing after school, I'll be avoiding contact with a friend I often chat with because she's Mormon. And I'm not ready to talk about how 5th grade science camp is shaping up with someone who was probably part of what just happened. Feel free to jump on me - Mr. X are you around - for my narrow mindedness. I can be ticked off at people only a little to the right of me (Biden's "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and so does Barack Obama") and people only a little to the left of me (How could she not see how taking her 2nd grade class to a lesbian wedding would be perfect ammunition for the other side?). And while I'm mad at everyone, how about all those supportive friends who proudly and sympathetically shared that they voted No on 8? How many of them donated? I know of one. How many of them put up a yard sign? In my neighborhood - 3. How many of them talked about opposing Prop 8 not with their gay friend but with a co-worker or neighbor who needed to hear from them, but who didn't, and yesterday were part of the 1/3 of Bay Area voters and 1/2 of LA voters who voted for discrimination? Oh, and myself. Did I mention me? Did I volunteer? I picked up a sign for a supportive neighbor. Fighting for my equality, and I walked fifty feet to a table and picked up a sign. Oh, and a sticker. Did I canvass? I emailed about twenty people. Only people who knew me pretty well. Did I donate? $100 - about what we spend for three trips to McDonald's. Apparently our right to marry and be considered equal to other Californians was worth two Big Macs and one Asian chicken salad. Still processing.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <<Well I think in some ways that's true. Still, persecution isn't the issue here. The civil rights of one group of people has been violated with the passage of this law. That point cannot be rationalized away no matter what anyone says>> I agree - I am only repeating what the community leaders (mostly from Oakland and Richmond) had said to the interviewers.
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By markymouse I've been around. And I've talked to a few folks. A man - from Utah by the way - who was sent by his family to electroshock therapy to cure his homosexuality in the 70s. How many black civil rights workers were tortured with their own parents' blessing? I don't mean to take a thing away from the civil rights movement. I have huge respect for the people who were involved in that. Watching Jesse Jackson crying as Barack Obama made his acceptance speech was one of the most moving things I've seen in a long time. I also need to see firm evidence before I even believe the argument that African Americans voted overwhelmingly against us. Remember, exit polling is pretty inexact, especially with smaller populations, like California African Americans. If it is true, I hope the next few years see a lot more bridge building.
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
