Originally Posted By BPSJP >>But don’t start claiming Uni is the superior resort because it just plain is not!<< Boy know one would ever say you are not opinionated! But you happen to be right on the money here.
Originally Posted By Manfried Horizons was built by the water cooling towers with materials that could not handle the mist. Also, it never had a line and no one went on it.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Also, it never had a line and no one went on it.<<< It did early on because I can remember standing in it. It was that way for a number of years if I remember correctly.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I have spent, and will probably spend in future, an entire week at WDW without ever leaving property. Last trip I only left once (when I got a ride and had dinner with friends at Cross Roads) in a nine day trip. This next trip to the area I probably won't do any Disney but I won't be spending a week at Universal either. I'll spend two or at most three days there. I just don't see it as a vacation destination. I travel too far to only spend a few days and I can't see myself spending a week there and only there like at Disney. Rather than being a vacation destination, Universal Orland is PART of a Florida vacation for us.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have been doing alot of traveling to NYC from Orlando this year and always run into families either coming or going from their Orlando vacations. I have been truly amazed at how many people have said that they are either going or coming from a vacation that included Universal but no Disney. Last week a family of four sat next to me on the plane. I struck up a conversation with the dad who told me that they come down every year and this year did Uni/IOA, Sea World and Aquatica. I asked about Disney and he told me that they decided they had seen everything before and didnt bother to do it again. He also said that his boys (around 14 and 16 I would say) told him that there wasnt much for them to do at Disney. I have always been a fan of Universal. I think both of their parks are wonderful experiences that have gotten better over the past several years. (EPCOT is still my favorite park though) What Disney can learn from Universal is the need to update, add and change attractions. EPCOT is still running a movie at France that opened when the park did. The second lesson from Universal is that the little details still matter. While everyone comments on the Harry Potter ride, more people talk to me about the detail in the area. People see the care that went into the area and they are impressed. With Disney I have become resigned that things will not change for the better. Knowing the people in mgmt and who is being groomed for the future (can we say EPCOT's current VP) all I can see is more of the same. Over the years I have moved from a caring fan, to an angry fan, to an frustrated observer to finally someone who doesnt really care. I think it says alot that if I didnt get into Disney for free I wouldnt probably go but I pay for AP's for Sea World and Universal.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I am guessing the families that focus on WDW have probably gotten the Dining/ticket/resort package. It is not as easy to find discounting at Universal...unless someone has helpful hints to share.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, I used to be a worshipper/defender; then a concerned fan; then an angry fan; and now, a historian. Sad by true. Our fellow honourable LPers like VBDAD may say we are jaded or that we think USO can do no wrong (which is not exactly true), but when so many folks are starting to see WDW as an add on, or are not bothering at all, well frankly, there is a problem there. WDW may still draw the crowds, but cheaper all inclusive travellers and DVC owners who have an emotional and financial committment are I think the key demographics going now. I want Disney to be the very best, and I do not mean by a margin. But I am resigned to the fact that with the leadership (or lack of) at the top, the mediocre management team, share holder malaise and it being a corporation more than ever, those days are over. I am seeking alternatives. I was very impressed with Europa Park and Phantasialand; I am looking forward to Efteling; I would like to go to Tokyo to see how OLC do their thing; and when the kids are old/tall enough, we will be going to Orlando with WDW being an add on, but KSC/USO/SW being the draw.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>What Disney can learn from Universal is the need to update, add and change attractions.<< In all fairness, though, how many attractions has Universal added or significantly updated in recent years? They redid Earthquake (which was kind of lame, since it was basically Catastrophe Canyon without the rest of the ride) into Disaster (which appears to be almost identical for all practical purposes, opened the overhead PeopleMover-type thing in Seuss Landing, opened a less-than-reliable coaster at the front of USO, and added a single attraction and highly-themed mini-land for Harry Potter. While that's still more than Disney's done in recent years, it does seem like USO's success is that it happened to buy the right brand and market it well. There really haven't been significant additions to the resort's overall roster since IOA opened. They're just doing a better job of adding the right things very sparingly, which I believe is what WDW is also trying to do. I don't think either is a particularly strong long-term business plan.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Horizons was built by the water cooling towers with materials that could not handle the mist. Also, it never had a line and no one went on it.<<<< By it's nature, it never had a long line... Omnimover, constantly moving. It's like SSE. Never a long line, save for at peak times.
Originally Posted By hopemax You forgot the conversion of Back to the Future to the Simpsons in 2007/2008.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Personally, I blame it on Fastpass. It created a hurry up and just do the ride. No need to invest in theme or extra's cause they are just there to go through the parks as quickly as they can. Those that have gotten frustrated because they couldn't get a Fastpass, for whatever reason, just don't see the magic and decide to go elsewhere. I know people don't agree with me on this, but what I have been saying for years now, is starting to actually happen. Disney as an "also visit" instead of a main destination. It's too expensive and too frustrating to care about going again. The "pixie dust" is still there but everyone is in too much of a hurry to see or feel it. In the meantime, out of necessity, Universal has upgraded and added and have not been "cheap" in doing it. They also charge for or connect "front of the line" privilege and not just go first come first served. Then when you see someone go ahead you know that they paid for that privilege and it makes it a little easier to accept, in my mind. They do have one advantage in that they can get rid of an attraction or change it without getting the traditionalists knickers in a knot. Try changing anything in WDW and watch the venom in the boards. To be honest I wouldn't want to be a Disney Exec. trying to decide what can be done to improve and not go any higher on the cost of admittance or incur the wrath of the people that do not want to see anything change. Realistically, I know that it is more than that, but the stuff that everyone seems to focus in on, like not as clean or small items not working, are AP or frequent visitor complaints. The first timer is still impressed with the degree of care that is taken at "the World". They have no basis of comparison other than maybe 6 flags or something less. I haven't been to Universal often but whenever I went I always thought that it was at least as clean and efficient as WDW. Always! The only real complaint that I ever had with Universal was that they were even better at hiding lines then Disney is. You could think you were almost there only to find out that you still had miles to go once you turned an invisible corner.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<They do have one advantage in that they can get rid of an attraction or change it without getting the traditionalists knickers in a knot.>> You must not have been paying attention when BTTF and Kong got the axe. People were livid. And now anytime someone on a Universal board brings up changing Jaws or E.T. they get their head cut off. Figuratively speaking, of course.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You must not have been paying attention when BTTF and Kong got the axe.>> UNI deserved some heat over that. Kong was a wonderfully detailed attraction. Their NYC set was one of the best attraction settings anywhere. What WERE they thinking??
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<UNI deserved some heat over that. Kong was a wonderfully detailed attraction. Their NYC set was one of the best attraction settings anywhere. What WERE they thinking??>> I completely agree they deserved a verbal whipping for that, although at least they replaced it with a great attraction. From what I understand, Kong's maintenance bill was through the roof ever since the park opened. I forget the company's name, but whoever did a lot of the effects for the park's original attractions did an incredibly poor job in making reliable effects, even if they were state of the art. Basically Universal was pumping tons of money each year into the Kong animatronics in order to keep them up and going. Then in the early 2000s, after the epic failure that was the "Universal Escape" marketing campaign, the parks were hurting financially and with drawing power,not to mention dwindling ridership of Kong, they decided to make a state of the art attraction that would replace the money guzzler, and we got Revenge of the Mummy. And yea, Mummy is a spectacular ride, but I miss Kong a bit each time I ride it.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros <<They do have one advantage in that they can get rid of an attraction or change it without getting the traditionalists knickers in a knot.>> Perhaps the reason for this isn't just that the Disney fans are opposed to change, but rather they've seen Disney's recent track record and knows what to expect from them. Personally, I would be fine with major changes/removals of almost every attraction in WDW (there are some exceptions of things that need to stay but can be updated, like SSE and the American Adventure), but I just don't trust them to do a good job any more. Even though things like SSE need to be updated occasionally, the recent versions that they've given us just don't measure up to the version before. In a perfect world, they would have outstanding maintenance on the existing attractions, keeping them up to date with the latest effects, and they would also be adding new ones that blew us away. Sadly, it seems like Disney (particularly in Orlando) is no longer capable of doing either. It's not that I'm against change; I just don't think they have the vision or cajones to pull off a really great attraction these days.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And yea, Mummy is a spectacular ride, but I miss Kong a bit each time I ride it.>> I've not been to Universal since they opened Mummy, but I plan to go there my next visit to Orlando. I did hate to see Kong turned into a coaster type attraction since Ann (and Rose before her) won't do coasters. It means one fewer attraction I can experience with my wife.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<There really haven't been significant additions to the resort's overall roster since IOA opened. They're just doing a better job of adding the right things very sparingly, which I believe is what WDW is also trying to do. I don't think either is a particularly strong long-term business plan.>> I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. The rides/ attractions that Uni seems to be adding are all major hits! Someone over at Uni is doing something right!. Adding a new ride/ attraction each year is one thing, but for goodness sake Uni has the best 4 D movie out there, Back to the Future was consistently a very popular ride. Men In Black kept winning the best park ride in the USA year after year after year. Mummy is a huge hit! These rides have never diminished in popularity. It just seems that when it comes to new rides and attraction, Uni keeps hitting them out of the park. Also, I think we have to point out that Uni appears to offer people what they want, new rides and attractions ( and we're not talking tiny little things like Disney's 60 second Nemo thing in the Living Seas ). Uni offers over the top rides, not half a roller coaster. Uni also invest is rides not ride que make-overs.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Here's the problem with the Mummy as far as I am concerned. Although, I am not as large as the type that "spirit" watches so closely, I am a pretty big fellow. So what did Uni do...they put the mock ride car out by the entrance where anyone that has a worry that they might not fit need to, in front of god and everybody, attempt to struggle in and/or out of it. Not real conducive to desire. So rather than embarrass myself, I have chosen not to ride. The chances are that I would fit alright, but I am not willing to take the chance. That said, I agree that Kong was a spectacular ride, but it seemed like it was broken down more then Test Track. There was always a delay, every time I attempted to ride it. (I guess it might have been Kong holding things up) Not to mention that it was one of those with the hidden "Q" line. Just when you thought you were close to getting in, you'd turn left and "bam" there you were facing another hour. It was a great ride though. I once escorted a couple of Mentally Delayed brothers to Florida. We went on the ride and, not thinking, I forgot to mention that it wasn't real to the boys, well men actually. In the middle of the ride I happened to look at them and the fear in their expressions were shocking. I quickly told them it wasn't real and their normal complexion returned. I felt bad about that, but later they were able to laugh about it.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<They do have one advantage in that they can get rid of an attraction or change it without getting the traditionalists knickers in a knot. Try changing anything in WDW and watch the venom in the boards. To be honest I wouldn't want to be a Disney Exec. trying to decide what can be done to improve and not go any higher on the cost of admittance or incur the wrath of the people that do not want to see anything change.>> Fastpass is one things, but what makes little of no sense to me is when Disney intentionally is running rides at half capacity. BTMRR and the Great Movie Ride are noctorious for this. How many times have we all been on BTMRR and one only side is being run? Or tGMR and they are only running two cars? As far as Fastpass is concerned Disney needed to respond to the fact that Universal kinda of built for running two lines, regular and their Fastpass equivalant. I like Fastpass, but there is a good way to do it and a bad way. I've seen both ways done. The "bad" way is to alway let Fastpass holders go first ( like they do with Dinosaur or Soarin ). The "good" way it to let your Fastpass people come up to the line, then in an equal number of regular line people. So that you are always keeping your line moving. I don't know how many times I have stood waiting to get onto either Dinosaur or Kilimagaro and there is just a stead stream of Fastpassers so that you are just standing there for 30 minutes waiting for a lull in the Fastpass line.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think we would all be impressed with the rides and attractions for WDW the imagineers would come up with if for example they were given the budget Disney is spending on new DVC properties. If only!
