Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have been doing alot of traveling to NYC from Orlando this year and always run into families either coming or going from their Orlando vacations. I have been truly amazed at how many people have said that they are either going or coming from a vacation that included Universal but no Disney. Last week a family of four sat next to me on the plane. I struck up a conversation with the dad who told me that they come down every year and this year did Uni/IOA, Sea World and Aquatica. I asked about Disney and he told me that they decided they had seen everything before and didnt bother to do it again. He also said that his boys (around 14 and 16 I would say) told him that there wasnt much for them to do at Disney. I have always been a fan of Universal. I think both of their parks are wonderful experiences that have gotten better over the past several years. (EPCOT is still my favorite park though) What Disney can learn from Universal is the need to update, add and change attractions. EPCOT is still running a movie at France that opened when the park did. The second lesson from Universal is that the little details still matter. While everyone comments on the Harry Potter ride, more people talk to me about the detail in the area. People see the care that went into the area and they are impressed. >> Absolutely. I love to hear blathering Disney fanbois talk about 'Potter is nice enough, but there's only one ride yada, yada, yada' ... WWoHP can be hours (lots if its busy) of entertainment. It's all in the details, something Disney wrote the book on and then decided to simply sell for use on coffee tables. EVERYthing in WWoHP is designed to tell a story and put guests in a different place/time. Disney used to do that. Now, it's simply about THE BRAND, synergy and toons. All the time. That's what Walmarting is all about. <<With Disney I have become resigned that things will not change for the better. Knowing the people in mgmt and who is being groomed for the future (can we say EPCOT's current VP) all I can see is more of the same. Over the years I have moved from a caring fan, to an angry fan, to an frustrated observer to finally someone who doesnt really care. I think it says alot that if I didnt get into Disney for free I wouldnt probably go but I pay for AP's for Sea World and Universal. >> I've said it a lot (sadly) of late, but if it wasn't that I want to keep my charter AP status (and the fact I KNOW people at Disney would just as soon never have me as a guest, which tells you plenty about their pathetic current corporate mindset) that I likely would never pay for WDW's parks. They may be great for first-timers or people who haven't been that often ... or back in the good old days ... or haven't the ability to travel to other Disney resorts ... or (my favorites) just don't know any better or care about standards, but for me ... well, they have lost so much over time. And construction walls don't get me all hot and bothered.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And yea, Mummy is a spectacular ride, but I miss Kong a bit each time I ride it.>> I loved Kong and I also love Mummy ... I also didn't wind up in pain after riding it last week. ... and since it roughly was UNI's 'answer' to RnRC, it certainly is worlds better. But so many attractions are. For example, people ride Ghetto Buzz at the MK and love it, despite the fact that one can max the game out in the first room or two if they have done any online reading ... when MiB is a billion times better. UNI has steadily invested in adding state of the art attractions, while Disney has been resting on its laurels for the past decade in FLA for the most part. Marketing hype and mindless bloggers/podcasters, who will never criticize a thing Mickey does, can't mask the fact that WDW is a very stale, poorly run resort. You see positives in places ... but overall the trending has been and remains downward. And no matter how good Star Tours 2.0 is, it isn't enough to begin to make up for a Decade of Decline.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Until they start enforcing the times on Fastasses, you'll never see an equal distribution of guests being allowed through merge. The rules are for every 8 fastpassers you let through, you have to let 2 stand-byes in. Unfortunately, since we're not allowed to enforce the strict hour time-limits, the fastpass lines often become flooded with people, and it becomes necessary to clear it out.>> That's why FP is a joke. I can pick up a pair of Space Mtn FP's for 11:50 a.m.-12:50 p.m. on a table at Cosmic Ray's at 8 p.m. and use them at 9 p.m. without a second glance. Not how the system was set up. But that's how FP works in practice in WDW, DL and DLP ... haven't needed it at HKDL, so can't say there. But TDR requires you use the FP in the window provided. No using a 4 p.m. FP at 8 p.m. because you felt like it ... I've heard that Americans/westerners can kind of skirt this by playing dumb and walking past their Japanese hosts. But I never did that when in Tokyo in December. I do believe in playing by the rules ... so long as everyone else does too. At WDW, no one does. ... I don't either. I also have been accused of soda thievery from time to time ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Many people can't stand in line in the Florida heat and humidity for hours on end to get onto an attraction. AND when your a guest and you can get very popular attractions with little or no wait, It's A Small World, Pirates, SSE, Haunted Mansion. It's very frustrating and doesn't make much sense to be waiting forever and a day to get on Splash, BTMRR, Toy Story, the Great Movie Ride, Kilimajaro and Dinosaur.>> To be fair, though, smart visitors spend very little time doing rides in the parks during busy periods (like post Easter week when I was there) if you can take advantage of EMH or simply regular midnight and 1 a.m. closings at MK ... and 10 p.m. closings at Studios. In four hours at MK at night you can literally do anything/everything with very little waiting. TDO wants you to be able to ride nine MK rides in a day. On an 8 a.m.-midnight day (with 3 a.m. EMH), you could literally do triple that minimally if you stayed out of the park until 6 or 7 p.m. and then did your rides. Standing in 90-plus degree humid weather for hours to ride attractions that will be almost walk-ons at 10:30 p.m. (when the weather is beautiful -- at least until June!) just seems stupid to me and a waste of anyone's vacation time.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<1999, with the idea of getting people out of line and into the shops. >> yep ... and I was there when they tested it at KS at DAK and Space and Splash Mtns at MK ... I knew where it was all going and also thought 'I have a very bad feeling about this!'
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>yep ... and I was there when they tested it at KS at DAK and Space and Splash Mtns at MK ... I knew where it was all going and also thought 'I have a very bad feeling about this!'<<< And it wasn't even interactive, then.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I think we would all be impressed with the rides and attractions for WDW the imagineers would come up with if for example they were given the budget Disney is spending on new DVC properties. If only!>> That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. With DVC the initial investment is returned (probably with a tidy profit) in the first 5-6 years a DVC resort is opened... far more quickly with a really popular DVC resort like the Boardwalk or Contemporary Tower. Member dues pay for ongoing maintenance. With a new attraction there is absolutely no tangible return on investment and any long-term increase in attendance due to the attraction will be slow in paying back the investment and will require additional personnel and maintenance. To claim that expenditures on one have absolutely anything to do with expenditures on the other is so absurd that I get really tired of hearing it. Why does Disney keep building DVC resorts? Because it returns investment quickly and is a huge moneymaker. Not so with new attractions.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I think we would all be impressed with the rides and attractions for WDW the imagineers would come up with if for example they were given the budget Disney is spending on new DVC properties. If only!>> That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. With DVC the initial investment is returned (probably with a tidy profit) in the first 5-6 years a DVC resort is opened... far more quickly with a really popular DVC resort like the Boardwalk or Contemporary Tower. Member dues pay for ongoing maintenance. With a new attraction there is absolutely no tangible return on investment and any long-term increase in attendance due to the attraction will be slow in paying back the investment and will require additional personnel and maintenance. To claim that expenditures on one have absolutely anything to do with expenditures on the other is so absurd that I get really tired of hearing it. Why does Disney keep building DVC resorts? Because it returns investment quickly and is a huge moneymaker. Not so with new attractions.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Oops... sorry for the double post. I'm SURE I just pushed the button once!
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub That's okay considering it is midnight or 2ish depending on your time zone...you must be seeing double for some reason... sometimes it just looks like DVC has taken over the World especially with the new rumors. Does anybody actually attend the DVC yearly meetings to post about rumor/fact? Maybe that is new DVC Construction in the middle of Fantasyland. The Beast is a DVCer rumor begins here.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Dang if I am so excited about my trip to the BLT at WDW on Wed I just can't sleep!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think it is foolish to piss and moan about people in the Fastpass line going ahead of you when you could have had one too. I also don't find it a problem to get the Fastpasses I need. There are really only 5 attractions in the MK that need them... the Mountains, Peter Pan and Pooh. I generally only use two or three. I'll always do the standby line for Big Thunder because I like watching the ride run while I'm in the queue. I'll get a FP for either Pan or Pooh depending on which has the longer wait, and then stand in line for the other while I'm waiting for my FP time. I almost always use a FP for Splash Mountain because the queue makes me claustrophobic. Space Mountain is kind of 50-50. Unless the wait is really long (over 45 minutes) I like the queue... it is air-conditioned and has kind of a neat atmosphere. So getting the FPs I need at the Magic Kingdom is never a problem. There are only two attractions at the Studios that really need Fastpass... Rock and Roller Coaster and Midway Mania. The wait at Tower of Terror rarely exceeds 30 minutes... especially since Mania opened. And it has a VERY good queue. So that leaves only RnRC and Mania and it just isn't difficult to get two FP's over the course of a day. Animal Kingdom is also a two FP park... for the Safari and EE. I usually just get one for the Safari and use the single rider line for EE. Again, no problem. Epcot again is a two FP park... Soarin' and Test Track. Again, I don't find it at all difficult to get two FP's during a day. I've NEVER had the experience of watching the FP line empty before people from the queue are admitted, NEVER! I must admit I've never seen the situation during peak attendance times because I'm not stupid enough to go to the parks during the day at those times. I sleep in, swim at the hotel pool, then head to the parks about 6PM. As others have mentioned, with the extended hours during peak times I never have a problem seeing everything I want to see in that time even without using Fastpass. Add to that EMH and there is absolutely no reason to EVER endure excessive waits. I think Fastpass, like DVC, is something some people like to latch on to as the reason for everything that is wrong with WDW. It just ain't so... at least not in my experience. I DO NOT like the idea of paying for head of the line passes… it find it elitist. I know some people see nothing wrong with elitist. I do.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Having worked a very popular FP attraction I can tell you that Disney's policy is that FP guests have priority over standby guests. The ratio can change during the day from 8 to 2 to as much as 16 to 2 but FP always gets priority. If the FP line gets backed up,which is does since we dont enforce the return time, the Standby line can sit for minutes while you empty the FP line. Merge can be a terrible place to work at times because of that. But just for a minute think of the math in that. 8 to 2. You can see why Standby lines are both long and slow moving. When I am at Merge I kind of ingnore the ratio and try to keep both lines moving. If your smart and watch you can keep the FP line moving while moving more Standby guests in. I find in the Standby line it's not the wait that makes guests mad, it's the line moving inches that annoy people. Having said that...I can tell you that when my attraction installed new FP machines a few years back we ran 3 days without the FP option. Our usual 90 min wait (with FP) dropped to 30-45 mins. I even commented to a manager (who was surprised and amazed) that wouldnt it be better for everyone to drop FP? She just chucked and said that would never happen. I can tell you that for the CM's it was a wonderful 3 days, the lines moved, the guests were happy and our longest wait was 45 mins with drops down to 20 mins throughout the day.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo That sounds exactly like the expereince at WDSP when they did FP tests for Crush Coaster. The day without FP, Crush had 60 min lines, and the other e tickets sat at around 15-20minutes. The days they tested fastpass (with similar attendance numbers according to a management source), stand by went up to 150 minutes on Crush, and 45-60 minutes on the nearby e tickets (but still 15 minutes for Rock and Roller Coaster on the other side of the park). That was proof FP is not good.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip But the fact remains that if you make the minimal effort involved in getting a Fastpass for the prime attractions, your wait will be shorter. That, to me, is a good thing. Those who for whatever reason choose to ignore Fastpass are just asking for trouble. I don't have much sympathy for them.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Sometimes FP's run out very early. But it is not just the issue getting FPs for one attraction. It is the spill over on the walkways (biggest prob at DL IMHO) or onto other attractions when they would be in the queue of the FP attraction back in the day (WDSP is an example). Overall, FP makes the parks less pleasureable IMHO. And having been to Europa Park where they do not have such a thing (but still had 48,000 guests the days we were there) reminded me of how much more enjoyable DIsney was pre FP.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Is this serious? Never heard of "mentally delayed". Is that a new one?<<< Yea, I figured I would create my own PC coverup. It is no longer acceptable to use the word retarded, even though it is a perfectly good word that quickly describes the situation, and Mentally Challenged is not really appropriate. In our minds we probably look at them as making an effort to be like us. To them, they are what they are. They don't envy our perceived "superior" ability and do not find it a challenge at all. Since we tend to measure others by some sort of scale of standards, according to our charts they have a delayed mental growth...hence "mentally delayed". Feel free to add this to your list of new words.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo In the UK, it is called Learning Difficulties. I remember when I first heard that, I thought they were talking about Dyslexia. Lol.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>explain that feeling to the many families that scrape together jut enough money to go once or twice in a lifetime then have to explain to their kids why fat wallets go first...<< Isn't that the American Way? Otherwise we'd be a bunch of commies. Sadly, I think the kids already understand this, as they see it in their daily lives. They know that their well to do friends at school get everything they want, when they want it. Because their parent have fat wallets.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Don't you mean 'buffalo' as Mrs. VBDAD has grown fond of calling him? ---------------- sadly closer to the truth these days -- but again, we're working diligently on it
