Originally Posted By Labuda Dave, you know I adore you and all, but I will respectfully disagree on the topic of paying for front-of-line privileges. While I've not yet been to Universal, I've paid at Fiesta Texas (a Six Flag park these days) to get their "Flash pass" or whatever it's called. For two of us it was only about $90 and we never once waited to get on ANY ride... as soon as we "reserved" a time while getting off one ride, we'd be ready to get on when we got to the next. It was like a dream come true... all those fun coasters and NO wait on a semi-busy summer day (most lines were about 40 minutes, IIRC)... after standing in line for the first coaster we went on, my friend and I had a chat and decided to spend the money. It was well worth it, and, honestly, if you're already paying to get into an amusement park or a theme park, isn't that because you have some disposable income? I begrudge no one who pays for "front of line" privvies. I'll just wish I could afford it if sometime I'm given that option, but I can't. Oh, and you can bet your bootie that I'll be paying for the Universal thing if I can't get it free for staying onsite.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<who now have to pay not to be second class citizens.>> Please. *rolls eyes* --- why would this not be true ?Explain it to me- I must be slow
Originally Posted By vbdad55 that's great Ann- but someone with a family of 6-7 might look at that differently..one always has to be able to walk in someone else's shoes to see what the issue may be. --in today's world of becoming have's and have not's and the slow eradication of the middle class, this is an issue. like the $90 you paid, if everyone - or even most could afford that- what do you think would happen to never waiting ? it's really just math done by any parks bean counter- a certain % could afford it and they could afford to have that % 'skip ahead' without bogging everything down. If that number was even 50% the system would grind to a halt
Originally Posted By Labuda Good point. I'm paying for me and nobody else but me... I shudder to think how much DVCdad or someone else would have to pay. But, optimist me says this: Hey, cool! Maybe it's mostly single folks so it's really not that much of an imposition for those who aren't using it. Also, at least for Universal, they only sell a certain number of their front-of-the-line passes per day. I found that out on their website.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Guests were never meant to get a FP for every attraction that offers them. The intent was that a guest could probably get 2 during a day in the park, more on a slow day, maybe less on a busy day. Of course if you are there at park opening you can rack up FP's quickly since your window reopens once your return time has come. As someone who has worked for Disney since 1982 I can tell you that I see no redeeming things about FP. There are several attractions on property I know very well before and after FP and my experience is that FP makes the standby lines longer. My feeling is that it is a shell game for most guests. The average guest (most likely not anyone here) grab a FP or 2, they feel they were able to avoid a long wait here and there and are more than happy to stand in a line somewhere else, not realizing that FP is pushing lines at most of the other attractions longer. It's a Jedi mind game. It is a miserable experience for many CM's and since the shops have been homogonized my guess is that people arent spending much more than they would have anyway. I am not a fan.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and since the shops have been homogonized my guess is that people arent spending much more than they would have anyway. ---- this part is a separate issue but very true.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 again I agree not average guests here- but I can absolutely plan much better- let's say I have an 11:30 lunch-- I know I can standby SM and FP BTMRR.. and get both done in say 45 minutes-- that never used to be able to be done and 2 standby lines back to back was a planning nightmare for dinner ressies etc. so I absolutely see benefit- but yes you have to know how to work the system for the record I rarely if ever do more than 2 in a day at any park- but usually they preceed meals - and helps timing for such
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Agreed with the caveat above ... I do wish we were having this discussion over drinks at the Territory Lounge, though. I'm not sure my real point is getting through and not sure I can state it here in a way that won't start a flame war errupting when I don't have the time or energy for one ... << I agree. I could use a Manhattan right now. Go ahead, and start a flame war. They're always fun. I will agree that I am missing out on some of the finer points you are making. What you need to understand though, for a lot of people WDW is better than a cruise. Just different perspectives. I have to admit though a 2 week cruise is intriguing to me. Now if I could only convince my wife she won't get sea sick. Sadly after her experience of riding Dinosaur, and BTMRR for the first time on our last trip at my urging. She no longer believes anything I say.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Ships today are so large and have such good stabilizer systems that you almost never feel any motion at all. Our first night out the seas were relatively high... you definitely felt the motion. Walking around you felt like you'd had a dew drinks even if you hadn't. But still, you felt less than 10% of the motion that you feel while walking on a passenger train. While sitting somewhere or lying in bed it was barely noticeable. The remainder of the trip we felt no movement at all. One time we were to surprised to find we'd left port a while before and we had never even noticed the ship begin to move.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<But that's how FP works in practice in WDW, DL and DLP ... haven't needed it at HKDL, so can't say there.>> My experience at DLP is that they don't accept late returns, but I did not test it that much, I rather wanted to make sure to use the FPs I had. The FP window is also only 30 minutes, not one hour. So you really have to plan around any FP you get. And Crush at WDSP is indeed a good example of how attractions are without FP. I hate its long lines and would love to ride it more often if it had shorter lines. But then, standing in line for it is no way as frustrating as any standby line for a FP attraction: The 30 minutes went by faster than a 15 minute wait because we were moving constantly. My travel party even commented on how nice it is to be in a moving line and none of them knows anything about those FP discussions.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Ships today are so large and have such good stabilizer systems that you almost never feel any motion at all. Our first night out the seas were relatively high... you definitely felt the motion. Walking around you felt like you'd had a dew drinks even if you hadn't. But still, you felt less than 10% of the motion that you feel while walking on a passenger train. While sitting somewhere or lying in bed it was barely noticeable. The remainder of the trip we felt no movement at all. One time we were to surprised to find we'd left port a while before and we had never even noticed the ship begin to move. << Yes I know how nice the ships ride now. My wife is unbelieveably aware of motion though. I just don't want to risk it. Motion sickness pills do not work for her.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 ^^I don't get motion sick, but I am also (like your wife) very aware of motion. I have spent my entire life on boats, but cruising has not been particularly enjoyable for me because of the weird awareness I have of the motion. So I would tend to think you are wise not to risk it. Cruising isn't for everyone. That's just a fact. There are plenty of other great ways to experience travel, which it sounds like you do.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I agree. I could use a Manhattan right now. Go ahead, and start a flame war. They're always fun.>> Oh, I have already started something(s) far bigger in the real world. I always say if you can't create, then you might as well destroy. At least you accomplish something at the end of the day, right? <<I will agree that I am missing out on some of the finer points you are making. What you need to understand though, for a lot of people WDW is better than a cruise. Just different perspectives.>> I'm sure it is. But having done two transatlantic crossing in the past three years (one on DCL), I honestly don't believe I've ever had as relaxing a vacation with the possible exception of some trips to California's national parks. <<I have to admit though a 2 week cruise is intriguing to me. Now if I could only convince my wife she won't get sea sick. Sadly after her experience of riding Dinosaur, and BTMRR for the first time on our last trip at my urging. She no longer believes anything I say.>> Sea sickness is something I always worried about because i do get it on small boats. But while I can feel the motion often (even on huge ships like when I did a preview cruise on Oasis of the Seas in '09), it has never made me ill. Everyone is different. Theme park attractions never make me sick either ... except my one and only ride on the Astro Orbiter in 1995 (that I think was a combo of spinning, heights, and sun/heat). But I can't say enough good things about cruising in general and DCL in particular. Just much more relaxing than other forms of travel ...
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Oh, I have already started something(s) far bigger in the real world. I always say if you can't create, then you might as well destroy. At least you accomplish something at the end of the day, right? << The Genghis Khan school of thought. I believe I know what you are talking about.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> ^^I don't get motion sick, but I am also (like your wife) very aware of motion. I have spent my entire life on boats, but cruising has not been particularly enjoyable for me because of the weird awareness I have of the motion. So I would tend to think you are wise not to risk it. Cruising isn't for everyone. That's just a fact. There are plenty of other great ways to experience travel, which it sounds like you do. << Thanks for the advice Christi. I believe I'll take it too.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper WWoHP 2.0 is rumored to break ground in 4-6 months. Thought you ought to know. /Quirell voice
Originally Posted By ReelJustice <<WWoHP 2.0 is rumored to break ground in 4-6 months. Thought you ought to know. /Quirell voice>> Obligatory, #TheGameHasChanged post
Originally Posted By MousDad ^^ Bring it, theme park leader. I was on hiatus, finally caught up with this thread, and am pumped that this topic is finally getting a serious discussion (aka, a Spirited thread). Because long time ago, when WWoHP was announced, before Social Media began their sanitation sweep of Disney fan sites, when some of us put our necks out on a limb saying that the game was changing and that Disney was in serious, serious danger of no longer being close to the leader in the theme park world... Well, the rest is history. And the future is looking extremely bright. (up I-4 anyway) >>I always say if you can't create, then you might as well destroy. At least you accomplish something at the end of the day, right?<< My favorite Dilbert strip ever: Dilbert: "I finally made an impact at work today." Dogbert: "How many victims?"
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>WWoHP 2.0 is rumored to break ground in 4-6 months. Thought you ought to know. /Quirell voice<<< I know you disagree, but they'd be foolish not to announce this on May 19th.
