Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ""How many golf courses does Universal have? How many places can you rent watercraft or go parasailing? Do they have any evening show even approaching Illuminations, Fantasmic or Wishes?"" <<Wow, you are DESPERATE.... Who cares about such trivialities??>> The things Trippy mentioned are not trivial at all. It's just most guests in the 21st century don't care about things like that. WDW became too big, too fast and too pricey for the 'average' guest to think about spending days taking advantage of the amazing recreational opportunities. And the 400-pounders riding in their ECVs, munching on turkey legs, wearing Goofy hats or tiaras with pin lanyards on defintely aren't interested in those aspects and neither are the mindless MAGICal fanbois who just go to WDW 'to ride the rides' ... they're also the ones who ignore World Showcase and DAK too.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, I agree 100%. If you really want to be blown away with the level of service, spend one night at the Portofino Bay. Be sure to visit the "quiete pool". You will fall down laughing at the "Disney Difference". Then take the water taxi over to The Hard Rock Hotel for a fantastic meal at the Palm Restaurant. <a href="http://www.thepalm.com/Orlando...odTBMhiw" target="_blank">http://www.thepalm.com/Orlando...odTBMhiw</a> Or just stay at Portofino Bay and eat at Bice. <a href="http://orlando.bicegroup.com/" target="_blank">http://orlando.bicegroup.com/</a> Palm Restaurant, Bice, and Emeril's 2 restaurants are Universal Orlando's 4 most high end restaurants. And I would put all of them in the same quality level as California Grill.>> I've wanted to stay at Portofino for years. And I used to dine there regularly at the cafe on the ground floor (kind of tucked away). Can't recall the name right now. But yeah, there's no doubt you get a better quality meal at better price points with higher caliber wait staffs at UNI. It is much the same with Swan/Dolphin. But even those aren't good enough with the pixe dusted crowd. No MAGIC, right? And, btw, Bluezoo, Il Mulino, Garden Grove, Shula's and Kimono's ALL have $25 gift certificates available on restaurant.com for as little as $2. But people would much rather have a steak at Le Cellier or overpriced pasta at Tutto Italia or their character dinner at Chef Mickey's. <<I had lunch the other day at Emeril's Orlando with another LPer. Maybe she will jump in and give her opinion.>> I heard about said lunch. The three of us REALLY need to do one of those whenever I next descend on O-Town. <<I was very impressed that even at lunch we had 3 waiters working our table. >> Yeah, as opposed to a Disney locale where you may get great service, but you won't have a team working and you may also have a server from hell ... or just Clermont (are they the same?) <<The food was great. My App. was New Orlean's Barbecue Shrimp w/ Patite Rosemary Biscuit($8). Entree: Emeril’s Fried Chicken, Collard Greens, Sweet Potato Biscuit, and Smoked Pecan-Honey Butter ($16).>> Not into shrimp (although the shrimp chips they served at Tchoup Chop instead of say a bread serving were phenomenal), but the entree sure sounds great. <<And the coolest part was like a pompas dork, I 4Squared my location on facebook and a "mobile coupon" for a free Acia Berry/Pom Martini popped up on my phone. I showed it to the waiter and got the free drink. COOL!! It's sort of like Disney's RFID thing with all the heavy lifting being done by Apple/AT&T.>> Free drinks are always good. (Thinking of starting a new Have Spirits With the Spirit program)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Have you ever played a round at WDW?>> Yes, several times at the Oak Trail. It is the only WDW course I'm good enough for. I WISH I could play the others... maybe someday... <<How many typical fans do?>> Probably not many. Just us DVC junkies who've been there so many times we can see past the parks. <<How many places can you rent watercraft or go parasailing? I don't believe any. But again, you're picking things that are vestiges from the 1971-1991 period when WDW was still The Vacation Kingdom of the World. I love to rent bikes and ride around FW and the WL. I love to get a treatment at the Spa at SS. I enjoy renting a boat (something I haven't done myself in years now) at FW. ... But really, how many people do these things vs. spending parts of four days in a week at the MK mindlessly riding the same attractions over and over ad nauseum?>> I realize that. But when you are 58 years old and over the past 20 years have spent cumulatively somewhere between 7 and 10 months at WDW, you look for things beyond the parks. I got past my theme-park commando stage at least 10 years ago. <<How many folks will stay at say the BW or PO or WL and NEVER even use the pools?>> I've always used them... not that many times each trip in the past because Rosie and my daughter didn't really enjoy that type of thing. Ann loves pools and on our honeymoon we spent a lot of time at the Boardwalk pool. DAMN... that Kiester Coaster is FUN!! I have to admit that if I were to choose a place to go PURELY on the basis of the parks it would probably be Universal. I really enjoyed Universal long before IOA ever existed. But for the overall vacation experience I want now, WDW is still tops.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<NONE of that is necessary, they just need to do it right. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related>>" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...>></a> Thanks for the video, that was a fun trip around TDR. And that's why I put in the caveat "at least not the monorail like it is at WDW now". But I still think that having to get all passengers up to the monorail level and down again is a hassle. Trams might not be as exciting as a monorail, but they are pretty efficient. However, designing and building a tram system would be a huge investment and maybe not cheaper than a monorail extension either...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And that's why I put in the caveat "at least not the monorail like it is at WDW now". But I still think that having to get all passengers up to the monorail level and down again is a hassle. Trams might not be as exciting as a monorail, but they are pretty efficient. However, designing and building a tram system would be a huge investment and maybe not cheaper than a monorail extension either...>> Actually Light Rail (which perhaps you refer to as trams) would be a helluva lot cheaper than extending the monorail and would be infinitely preferable to the buses. I really have no idea why WDW has never looked at that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Check out my pictures of Strasbourg to see the light rail there, it was amazing and efficient - every 3 minutes. It cost my family $10 for the 4 of us to use them unlimited for the day! The monorails at Alton Towers in the UK and the ones at Europa Park in Germany were all very fast, frequent and efficient. I do not know what happened at Disney to stop them being so. Do I romanticise my youth, or have the become less efficient than I remember?
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Disney is at their best when they AREN'T trying to one-up the competition, at least not directly and in a hurry. >> That reminds me of a statement I found in an interview with Mr Mack, the head of Europa Park (davewasbaloo just wrote a great trip report about it on the Other Theme Parks board). His family was originally in the circus business then started building rides and finally opened Europa Park to showcase their rides. When asked about whether he is afraid that one day amsuement parks might die out like the circus he says how important it is to act, not just react. To be fair, I think Europa Park did a lot of reacting when DLP entered the European scene. But I think the statement has a lot of truth. The sad thing is that it appears that WDW at the moment is neither acting nor reacting, but trying to just ignore what is happening. While Universal is trying to be the one who acts. And if those rumors about the May 19th announcement are true, it looks like they are succeeding.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Actually Light Rail (which perhaps you refer to as trams) would be a helluva lot cheaper than extending the monorail and would be infinitely preferable to the buses. I really have no idea why WDW has never looked at that.>> I always thought that Light Rail is more like a commuter train and with dedicated rails. When I say trams I mean trains that can run on rails which are in existing roads, however there is a trend to seperate them more and more in order to speed up the trains. But I guess we are thinking about pretty much the same thing here. <<Check out my pictures of Strasbourg to see the light rail there, it was amazing and efficient - every 3 minutes. It cost my family $10 for the 4 of us to use them unlimited for the day! >> That's what I am talking about. Even a train every 10 minutes on a real timetable would be a fantastic improvement over the go to a bus stop and a bus might come at some point in time, it usually should be one every 20 minutes.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I always thought that Light Rail is more like a commuter train and with dedicated rails. When I say trams I mean trains that can run on rails which are in existing roads, however there is a trend to seperate them more and more in order to speed up the trains. But I guess we are thinking about pretty much the same thing here.>> Probably just a difference in terms... in the U.S. light rail often runs alongside or even down the middle of existing roads. Generally the light rail always has priority so when the the two intersect auto traffic always has to stop for the light rail rather than the other way around.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Or in our case at WDW last time, many were 35-45 minutes from Animal Kingdom Lodge.
Originally Posted By -em WDW became too big, too fast and too pricey for the 'average' guest to think about spending days taking advantage of the amazing recreational opportunities. >>And the 400-pounders riding in their ECVs, munching on turkey legs, wearing Goofy hats or tiaras with pin lanyards on defintely aren't interested in those aspects and neither are the mindless MAGICal fanbois who just go to WDW 'to ride the rides' ... they're also the ones who ignore World Showcase and DAK too.<< They are the people for which its "all about the parks" Park Open to Park Close- If you spent more than 10% of vacation time not in the parks you are not a fan group... Or its people like me- Who despite living here for 5 years (!) Has never done most of the listed things. Only been once to mini golf, once to a water park etc... >>I heard about said lunch. The three of us REALLY need to do one of those whenever I next descend on O-Town.<< I agree though this split "custody" thing is fun too >> Free drinks are always good. (Thinking of starting a new Have Spirits With the Spirit program)<< Not sure I've ever done that Count me in...
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But I could not help but think the "Imax" scene with all the green lines and stuff to be very "Tron" like. And let's face it the minitures were very reminecent of Walt's model of EPCOT, kinda hokie ( no pun intended)*** Are you seriously arguing that taking inspiration from Walt Disney himself was somehow a BAD idea? >> No, what I am saying is that the "cheap" minitures used in Horizons futuristic displays make the LGB train in the German Pavallion look like state of the art. Disney Imagineers should have known better than to use typical cheap quality minitures that anyone could pick up in your typical hobby store! Pola makes better quality minitures for garden railways. And the 60 million it took to build Horizons wasn't spent on the minitures.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<You are arguing about small points in the whole masterpiece. Sort of like people who argue the Mona Lisa was no good because her eyes were too close together. Big picture, dude. Big picture.>> Sorry, I disagree. It's like buying a million dollar home with laminate kitchen counter tops! It just blantantly looks like you ran out of money so you took the "cheap" way out. Walt Disney never compromised on quality. Hense the phrase "Bad show".
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> Walt Disney never compromised on quality. Hense the phrase "Bad show".<<< Shame Disney of today does. Let's put the Walt back in Disney!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom To me it would be like going to V&A and being served a fried balogna sausage sandwich on a fine china plate. And being told by your waiter that Disney spent so much money on the building, furnishings and dinnerware that there was little money left for the actual food. OR, going to V&A and being served Chicken Rochambeau, turnover aubergine (eggplant) cake, baked with foie gras and lobster sauce all served on a paper plate and plastic utensils. And being told by your served that Disney spent so much money on everthing else that there was no money left over for dinnerware and flatware so they went to the local Piggly Wiggly and purchased paper plates and plastic flatware instead.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>>...but I've read one of the reasons for replacing Horizons was that the show building was literally falling apart.<<<<< It wasn't.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 "" but I've read one of the reasons for replacing Horizons was that the show building was literally falling apart."" FALSE. Because one of the original plans for MS was to salavge the show building and just shoehorn MS in it.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 As for World of Motion... OVER-RATED!! I went on it my first visit to Epcot and never bothered again. I think Test Track is a far better attraction*** Yeaaaaa, because TT TOTALLY lives up to the hype. WoM was probably the MOST World's Fair attraction next to SSE. This was, by far, the FUNNIEST Disney attraction WDI EVER created. The gags were terrific and hilarious. more funny than Pirates or Mansion. I loved the twists on history. It was like watching a huge Ward Kimball/Walt education short in full dimension. Plus THREE SuperSpeed tunnels and the floor to ceiling City of the Future in blacklight?? YEaaa TT totally compares!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<This was, by far, the FUNNIEST Disney attraction WDI EVER created.>> I can't agree. WoM never, ever struck a cord with my like the other original FW pavilions did. I'm not a huge fan of Test Track, but I hardly miss WoM.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>FALSE. Because one of the original plans for MS was to salavge the show building and just shoehorn MS in it.<<< Horizons used more steel than Spaceship Earth, and the Mission Space building is about 1/3 the size of it. You do the math... LOL
