Originally Posted By fkurucz >>WDW became too big, too fast and too pricey for the 'average' guest to think about spending days taking advantage of the amazing recreational opportunities.<< Anothe rthing to consider: The average American doesn't get enough time off from work to spend a leisurely vacation they days. Most take extended weekends where they are lucky to have 5 days off. If they go to Disney, they are going to ride the attractions over and over and over. They can play golf, go swimming, catch a movie, go bowling, etc. just fine back home. For most people there is no Space Mountain, Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain or Fantasmic! back home.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>For most people there is no Space Mountain, Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain or Fantasmic! back home.<<<< Giving Disney all the more reason to keep those rides open and without the proper maint. Corporate Culture is the death of Disney...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Horizons used more steel than Spaceship Earth, and the Mission Space building is about 1/3 the size of it. You do the math... LOL>> I did an Internet search last night on Horizons falling apart. I know it's the Internet and anyone can say anything, but I found many references to Horizons being over a sinkhole and that was creating structural damage. That the only way to rectify the problem was to remove the structure and take care of it before rebuilding. True or not? I obviously have no way of knowing for sure.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I had done the same thing RoadTrip and found the same information. I'm not sure what to believe. One thing I will say is that Horizons had an "odd" trapizoidish building that looked weird. At least the new Mission Space building looks sleek and in my opinion is a better looking building.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> How many folks will stay at say the BW or PO or WL and NEVER even use the pools? << I've never been in a pool at WDW, and I never will. I had a pool in my back yard. I filled it in after huricane Ike. I don't go to WDW to swim. Different people have diffrent ways of spending their vacation time. and relaxation time.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Horizons was NOT falling apart. There was no sinkhole. It was an excuse to try and placate the fans back in the day. I know this for sure. And if I didn't Martin has said so himself many, many times. And if Martin says it, it's good enough for me.
Originally Posted By hopemax The thing about the sinkhole is that it moves. What we do know: the water area between Innoventions and the Odyssey Restaurant is a sink hole. That's why the restaurant was built where it is and not it's planned location at the end of the Communicore building. But the "there's a sinkhole" has been attributed to World of Motion/Test Track, Horizons, Wonders of Life. And people say the "real" story is that there is a small sinkhole under the Universe of Energy building, but they've known about it since construction. But, I believe the roof was shot on the old Horizons building.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Let's talk about that and not how WDW has 43 square miles of timeshares, hotels, buses and paved, traffic clogged roadways. Disney wins that battle and the pixie dust crown and the pandering to mentally unstable people who are looking for something that doesn't exist crown too! << Come on Spirit. WDW is much more than that. Even with it's flaws it's still a great place for newbies, and old fans alike. Does it have issues, certainly. I have to believe that the DVC club is making money, and there is still a huge demand for it. You can't fault Disney for striking while the iron is hot.I also believe that a lot of DVC owners have the same issues as non-owners with the worry that WDW will be overbuilt. I don't think it has, but I do have concerns with to much building around the Seven Seas Lagoon as well as the DVC resorts not having their own restaurants. Yes I do understand the problems involved with having to fill all those rooms. I also think that TWDC is well aware of those problems also.It doesn't seem to be deterring them though. I'm of the opinion if we couldn't get a room on property, we all would be complaining about the lack of accomadations at WDW. Do you really think that just because people don't view Disney the same way as you do, they should be classified as mentally unstable? I'm going to go look at my towel animal collection, chill out for a while, watch all of my WDW VHS tapes, and DVDs, and then go take Winkie for a walk.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> No, what I am saying is that the "cheap" minitures used in Horizons futuristic displays make the LGB train in the German Pavallion look like state of the art. Disney Imagineers should have known better than to use typical cheap quality minitures that anyone could pick up in your typical hobby store! Pola makes better quality minitures for garden railways. And the 60 million it took to build Horizons wasn't spent on the minitures. << What miniatures are you talking about? I remember there was a Jetsons-like black-light space-age set. I'm not remembering any other kind of miniature in the ride.
Originally Posted By MPierce << And the 400-pounders riding in their ECVs, munching on turkey legs, wearing Goofy hats or tiaras with pin lanyards on defintely aren't interested in those aspects and neither are the mindless MAGICal fanbois who just go to WDW 'to ride the rides' ... they're also the ones who ignore World Showcase and DAK too. << Fat people need love too. Also you have to have a specially designed ECV if you weigh 400 pounds. Most ECV's are designed to carry a maximim weight of 250 pounds. >> Yeah, as opposed to a Disney locale where you may get great service, but you won't have a team working and you may also have a server from hell ... or just Clermont (are they the same?) << What's wrong with Clermont? I stopped, and got gas there one day. Ate a chilli cheese dog out of a vending machine. Played a game of dominoes, and drank a couple of beers with the attendant. If they would have had an alligator, some racoons, and rattlesnakes in cages in the back we would have spent the night.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Actually Light Rail (which perhaps you refer to as trams) would be a helluva lot cheaper than extending the monorail and would be infinitely preferable to the buses. I really have no idea why WDW has never looked at that. << I'm a big fan of light rai. I want to say ours here has, and is costing somewhere between $20 and 28 million a mile to build. I think it's a bargain, but I am a rail fan. I'm sure TWDC has looked into this, and determined it's to costly, and will continue to use buses.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I always thought that Light Rail is more like a commuter train and with dedicated rails. When I say trams I mean trains that can run on rails which are in existing roads, however there is a trend to seperate them more and more in order to speed up the trains. But I guess we are thinking about pretty much the same thing here. << >> Probably just a difference in terms... in the U.S. light rail often runs alongside or even down the middle of existing roads. Generally the light rail always has priority so when the the two intersect auto traffic always has to stop for the light rail rather than the other way around. << The system in Houston runs down the street for the most part. The train stops at red lights just like the cars. There are no left hand turns allowed for automobiles on roadways containing track. There are speed bumps beside the tracks, and warning signs up everywhere. It took a while, but people have finally stopped turning in front of trains.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Fat people need love too. Also you have to have a specially designed ECV if you weigh 400 pounds. Most ECV's are designed to carry a maximim weight of 250 pounds.<<< Don't let it bother you. It seems that "spirit" is obsessed with viewing fat people. Maybe it's his inner fat person trying to get out. Who knows. All I know is that whenever he mentions it, his credibility drops a little in my eyes. No, I am not one of those 400 pounders that he voyeurs constantly. I just think that a little human respect goes a long way in determining overall character.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Don't let it bother you. It seems that "spirit" is obsessed with viewing fat people. << It doesn't. I think it has absolutely no relevance to any of the issues that I have with WDW. I just always feel a need to comment on it because it usually stirs up a whole other series of discussions on ECVs. Where we will once again hear that the vast majority of people on ECVs are fat, and lazy. Then we will end up getting 5 or 6 ADMINS when the discussion turns nasty. Always an enjoyable afternoon of reading here on LP.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> What's wrong with Clermont? I stopped, and got gas there one day. Ate a chilli cheese dog out of a vending machine. Played a game of dominoes, and drank a couple of beers with the attendant. If they would have had an alligator, some racoons, and rattlesnakes in cages in the back we would have spent the night. << Sounds like you met my Uncle Larry. Clermont's got the Citrus Tower, the Presidents Hall of Fame, more subdivisions than you can shake a stick at, and a damn good Cuban restaurant in a strip mall on SR 50. No joke! Troy's Cuban Cafe. If you're ever in the area, try it. Great sandwiches and pork.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Then we will end up getting 5 or 6 ADMINS when the discussion turns nasty. Always an enjoyable afternoon of reading here on LP. << It's not a real discussion unless there are 5 or 6 ADMINs.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Clermont's got the Citrus Tower, the Presidents Hall of Fame, more subdivisions than you can shake a stick at, and a damn good Cuban restaurant in a strip mall on SR 50. No joke! Troy's Cuban Cafe. If you're ever in the area, try it. Great sandwiches and pork. << Is the Citrus Tower that building that looks like an air control tower at an airport? I always loved seeing that building because I knew I was getting close to getting a Pixie Dust overload.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But the big thing is UNI is just gotten to the point where they are looking to truly battle Disney with substance and quality and respect for guests>> <<I'll certainly agree with that. But if you remember my initial post I said WDW was a superior RESORT destination. And although the fan-boys may dismiss the importance of golf courses, watercraft, etc, for me it is a part of the overall experience. I've often said I could enjoy a week at WDW without ever setting foot in a themepark. As good as Universal is, that just would not be the case there.>> Agreed. But again, 99% of fanbois would never think of a WDW visit without parks. I could easily do a week at WL or Poly or DAK Lodge without EVER setting foot in a park. But since no one (except a few of us who realize sitting at the Territory Lounge for a few rounds beats riding BTMRR for an 11th time in two days or that watching the animals at DAK Lodge after lunch at Saana before a massage beats riding Everest for the 8th time in a day etc) cares about vestiges of the Vacation Kingdom, it really is (unfortunately) a meaningless point.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I totally agree with what you said, Christi. I had never conciously connected the decline to Disney's Magical Express, but the timeline does seem to work out a little too nicely to ignore. By literally trapping folks on property, they have no other option but to stay there.>> <<More or less coincides with the pushing of DDP/"free dining", as well. Same idea.>> Yep ... all part of Destination Disney, which begat MYW tickets, DME, DDP and even old Pal Mickey and 'earned' George K a nice 3-plus year stint as No. 2 at DLP. All foreshadowing the current NEXTGEN and One Disney initiatives.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But since no one (except a few of us who realize sitting at the Territory Lounge for a few rounds>> Ah... the Territory Lounge... they make a damned fine martini! I also enjoy the Belle Vue lounge at the Boardwalk. Alan always takes VERY good care of me!
