Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Didn't I say that "The World" outside the turnstiles was innovative? I'm not disputing the building of MK didn't take some engineering skill. And yes, MK is the anchor for WDW, that's not my point. My point is that if EPCOT didn't deserve more than a one day celebration, that only happened because fans put up a fuss, why bother for MK? <<< Because it's wrong to ignore BOTH anniversaries! LOL. Both should get a full year.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and this has been beaten to death here - there is NO other franchise that would have worked other than Potter at this point in time- NONE. And remember Disney was in that discussion- so why do we pretend that just because someone builds something - even if it is the highest quality- it will be a hit like Potter which has a built in audience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide ? really need a different argument than Potter.... for years IOA also build what wouldbe considered very good attractions and they did nothing for overall attendance -- Hard Rock park couldn't even get off the ground...Fantasyland expansion panned regularly here... show me one other thing anywhere that works. Hell even the Star Wars conventions are now what- every 5 years ? so build it and they will come- no
Originally Posted By leobloom >> WDW's Magic Kingdom turns 40 this year, big deal. It's opening wasn't any great innovation in family entertainment. It just brought what we had on the West coast to the East coast with scads more land and Disney resorts. To me the only American parks that deserve big anniversary celebrations are the innovators: Disneyland and EPCOT. << Epcot's birthday has never been treated as anything special, has it? I thought the birthday celebrations had always stemmed from the 1971 date.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> LS not impressive?! .... That's my favorite land. It's detailed, immersive, and unique. << LS is tiny. It's a micro-land, really just an excuse for putting the Haunted Mansion between Fantasyland and Frontierland.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Assuming WDW as a whole gets ignored: given a choice between celebrating MK's 40th this year or EPCOT's 30th next year, I'd rather celebrate EPCOT (obviously).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>and this has been beaten to death here - there is NO other franchise that would have worked other than Potter at this point in time- NONE. And remember Disney was in that discussion- so why do we pretend that just because someone builds something - even if it is the highest quality- it will be a hit like Potter which has a built in audience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide ?<<< It doesn't have to be a franchise. I mean, look at DAK.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Epcot's birthday has never been treated as anything special, has it? I thought the birthday celebrations had always stemmed from the 1971 date.<<< EPCOT had a few commemorative events for it's 10th, 15th, and 20th.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Assuming WDW as a whole gets ignored: given a choice between celebrating MK's 40th this year or EPCOT's 30th next year, I'd rather celebrate EPCOT (obviously).<<< Same here, but I'm a EPCOT fan. NEITHER should be ignored
Originally Posted By vbdad55 in today's economy likely would not have been built- and can you show me where it increased attendance by anywhere near the % impact Potter had ? It increased capacity...yes.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>LS is tiny. It's a micro-land, really just an excuse for putting the Haunted Mansion between Fantasyland and Frontierland.<<< And it has the Hall of Presidents, shops, the riverboat and great facades. The idea stems from DL.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and the cost was $1B - over 10 years ago...a complete park...I don't think you'll see that again anytime soon. POtter cost under $300- but that included ONE new ride and 2 re-themed rides. Again if it was not Harry Potter, no one would have noticed- regardless of quality of the addition
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I don't really dig this thread (if there were a like button, I wouldn't be hitting it). Whether WDW's 40th should have a year-long celebration/marketing event is debatable. I'd probably do one ... but maybe TDO is desperately trying to hide a very obvious mid-life crisis in the swamps and scrub of central Florida. But I will say that defending the status quo and mediocrity in anything isn't cool and ... well, unAmerican in my opinion. Aren't we supposed to keep our feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars? WDW Co sees no reason to not keep building timeshares and hotels when it is very obvious they are overbuilt in both. Anyone wanna talk about what the resort load levels were on the first holiday weekend of summer with a 'new' attraction opened and one park hosting a special event? And I am a bit (well, beyond a bit ... way, way beyond) tired of hearing about the economy being an excuse for WDW failing in invest and reinvest in the parks. They didn't grow tired and stale overnight. They were already being neglected in the 1990s ... and we've just ended a Decade of Decline property-wide. Smart corps with savvy CEOs would have realized the BEST time to invest would have been between say 2007 and now ... labor and construction costs would have been at/near all-time lows ... contractors would have been low-balling each other to snag a Mouse project. And before anyone brings up DCA, I'll hit you with a cold splash of reality and tell you that I've been told by someone very high up the food chain that the makeover happening right now would NEVER have made it off the ground if it had needed another 3-4 months for BoD approval. Once the $$$ had been allocated, it was happening come depression or not. And we all know about the $$$ NBC-UNI invested in its FLA resort over the past three years, don't we? Sometimes, there's no defending decisions of piss-poor management.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> EPCOT had a few commemorative events for it's 10th, 15th, and 20th. << But they weren't year-long megaevents like some of the resort's celebrations, were they? I'm just saying, if they don't make a big deal about the resort's birthday (i.e. adding attractions), then they're not going to do anything important for the Epcot birthday.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> And it has the Hall of Presidents, shops, the riverboat and great facades. The idea stems from DL. << Hall of Presidentszzzz...not a major attraction for most guests. I don't associate the riverboat with Liberty Square because it goes along the Frontierland shoreline. The area is so small it's hard for me to say that the facades make much of an impression. Then again, colonial or early national period America isn't the most fanciful theme for a land, either. No offense, to the history majors who aspire to study constituional law.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I don't really dig this thread (if there were a like button, I wouldn't be hitting it). << You can take your opinion and flush it. Or tell me again why corporate use of social media is the spawn of Satan.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 And I am a bit (well, beyond a bit ... way, way beyond) tired of hearing about the economy being an excuse for WDW failing in invest and reinvest in the parks. They didn't grow tired and stale overnight. They were already being neglected in the 1990s ... and we've just ended a Decade of Decline property-wide --- you can be a little tired of it if you want to be - but it IS a valid excuse today and for the past 2 years + -- for the decade before I agree they let - especially the MK get stale and could have been investing- but DVC development had nothing to do with them not doing it- there is no chicken-egg correlation there and you know it. They just chose not to... Now do they need more room capacity today ( DVC) - a different question..and unrelated. I would also agree I think saturation point is about there, if not already.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 labor and construction costs would have been at/near all-time lows ... contractors would have been low-balling each other to snag a Mouse project. --- do you work interfacing with the construction industry ? I didn't think so. I can tell you I am on a school board that just build a $150M high school- and you would think exactly what you are saying would be true... that contractors would be falling all over each other for the business. I can tell you it did not happen for us.. they let go excess workforce already- and are charging the same basic amounts as before. You want work done extra- they are charging premiums for timeframes because they have to go out and secure the workforce. We were shocked as well and for a very expensive proposition. Cost to borrow money for the contractors is way up..many - even some of the best credit ratings are not outstanding as most have outstanding bills to pay. Cost of materials is down about 7% over that time -( however cost of the main support structure were basically flat and wait times for the large materials longer because no one has inventory) but the other factors ate that savings away. So if you are thinking there are savings out there right now- the last 2-3 years I can tell you first hand- there really are not based on my experience. Uni spent $265M for a basic sure thing-- congrats to them it has been a hit but Disney would have done the same thing with the property... I am happy for Uni but money spent guarantees little. Again Potter a once in lifetime deal-- do I wish Disney had it- you bet, but they don't. Blame them for doing little between 2000 and 2007- I have no issue with that, but the last few years runaway spending would have been stupid
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> But they weren't year-long megaevents like some of the resort's celebrations, were they? I'm just saying, if they don't make a big deal about the resort's birthday (i.e. adding attractions), then they're not going to do anything important for the Epcot birthday<<< They had merch, park decor, and some special events, I think. I know the FoN was upgraded for EPCOT's 15th.
Originally Posted By 3disneylocations Hasn't Disney made huge investments to the facades of MSUSA and the like? Isn't this a celebration of the theme park and resort... Everyone here wants a big celebration, yet no one wants the big Disney todo (ala B'day Castle). Haters.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Hasn't Disney made huge investments to the facades of MSUSA and the like?<<< For fear of them falling apart and out of, necessity, yes. As they should be. >>(ala B'day Castle)<<< There are other ways to celebrate, without being tasteless, tacky, and crude. Like this: <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2451417463_606afd4be5.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com...4be5.jpg</a> <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/2670819371_7bb785af01.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com...af01.jpg</a>
