Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Golden Oak has a full build-out of 450 homes - and it is debatable as to whether it will ever get to that size.<<< Did Disney already build and sell some houses? How much is one villa?
Originally Posted By leemac Golden Oak is ahead of plan at the moment - it has proven popular (particularly amongst Brazilians with money to invest). The villas are tending to do for around $550 per sq ft - compare that with similar upscale communities elsewhere in Orlando that are lucky to achieve $250 per sq ft. It is a limited product but has proven very profitable.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Isn't Val D'Europe near DLRP also some kind of a planned community by Disney?>> Sort of. Val D'Europe wasn't masterplanned by Disney - the architects behind Celebration (Cooper, Robertson & Partners) did all of the masterplanning and most of the on-site execution. Technically Val D'Europe is a sub-division of Marne-la-Vallee but you could argue that it is a standalone community. It is relatively small at c.290 acres.
Originally Posted By dagobert Thanks for the answers. I thought I read somewhere that then-CEO Michael Eisner was involved in all the planing, especially in Place Toscane.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Val D'Europe wasn't masterplanned by Disney - the architects behind Celebration (Cooper, Robertson & Partners) did all of the masterplanning and most of the on-site execution.<<< So Imagineering wasn't involved at all? Is WDI involved in Les Villages Natures? I'm sorry if I had already asked you that.
Originally Posted By leemac <<So Imagineering wasn't involved at all? >> The architecture team at WDI is very small - it is impossible for them to work on every single project. They will always have a degree of oversight but that is usually it - unless it is a specific project (usually deluxe hotels). They never replaced Wing Chao when he retired so the team doesn't have the clout or reach that it once did. <<Is WDI involved in Les Villages Natures?>> Frank Hetherton is the director who is currently overseeing Les Villages Natures. He has been the WDI architect for Val D'Europe etc. for about 15 years now. He is partnering with the developer and the other advisors (e.g. AoR etc) to ensure it works. Joe Rohde is also providing creative input.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Frank Hetherton is the director who is currently overseeing Les Villages Natures. He has been the WDI architect for Val D'Europe etc. for about 15 years now. He is partnering with the developer and the other advisors (e.g. AoR etc) to ensure it works. Joe Rohde is also providing creative input.<<< Okay, that makes sense. I guess WDI is outsourcing a lot. I knew I read about Joe Rohde somewhere, but wasn't sure anymore. Wasn't Wing Chao responsible for the Disneyland Hotel in Paris and for the first DCL ships. At least I think I've seen him in a Travel Channel show about DCL.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I guess WDI is outsourcing a lot.>> Always have as far as architects go - even the Grand Floridian model that is always described as "designed by WDI" had WATG as the architect. <<Wasn't Wing Chao responsible for the Disneyland Hotel in Paris and for the first DCL ships.>> Wing worked on the masterplanning for every single theme park and resort from EPCOT. He also worked on every single hotel from '73 until his retirement. Wing has probably exerted more influence over WDP&R than any other imagineer in history.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Always have as far as architects go - even the Grand Floridian model that is always described as "designed by WDI" had WATG as the architect.<<< Didn't know that Disney worked with them. They have created some incredible hotels all over the globe. I would even say, they have designed the most beautiful hotels. Did they work on other Disney hotels as well, or only for the Grand Floridian? What a pitty that they weren't hired for the rest of the Disney hotels, especially in Paris.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Didn't know that Disney worked with them. They have created some incredible hotels all over the globe. I would even say, they have designed the most beautiful hotels. Did they work on other Disney hotels as well, or only for the Grand Floridian?>> WATG? Disney have worked with them since the first GF. They have worked on every other incarnation too. I don't recall any other WATG projects. I find their work a little derivative - their large-scale resorts like Atlantis and Emirates Palace are a little blocky for my liking.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>WATG? Disney have worked with them since the first GF. They have worked on every other incarnation too. I don't recall any other WATG projects.<<< So they only worked on the "Disneyland Hotels" in Paris, Hong Kong and Tokyo? The other hotels have been designed by WDI in house and other famous architects? >>>I find their work a little derivative - their large-scale resorts like Atlantis and Emirates Palace are a little blocky for my liking. <<< But they did some other great hotels. That's my favourite: <a href="http://www.watg.com/index.cfm/page/the-palace-of-the-lost-city-architects/" target="_blank">http://www.watg.com/index.cfm/...hitects/</a>
Originally Posted By DlandDug The Urban Design Group was certainly active for a while. And as I recall, they did propose some projects that went beyond themed hotels. Are they still on the scene? And are any planned "communities" beyond housing in the works?
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ I'd lump Sun City into the Atlantis mould - does little for me. Hyper-themed is the term that I use. It does have a great Gary Player golf course though! Most of the post 1990 hotels have an outside AoR - it was the only way that DDC/WDI could execute the growth plans for WDA.
Originally Posted By DlandDug As has been alluded to in this conversation, "Master Planned Community" can be understood in different ways, depending on the context. EPCOT was really an expression of the "New Town" movement, which did result in a few successful examples, as well as a lot of developments that never got off the ground. Two viable "New Towns" that spring to mind are Reston, Virginia and Irvine, California. Here's a good description of the kind of "community" Walt had in mind, from the introduction to the Reston Planned Communities Archive on line: >>Planned Communities integrate every aspect of human life including the social and economic, education, health services, recreation, religious institutions, industrial facilities and commercial centers. Placement of roads, utilities and housing are predetermined for the entire development in advance of construction. Housing is provided for a variety of income levels.<< <a href="http://www.aladin0.wrlc.org/gsdl/collect/pcar/pcar.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.aladin0.wrlc.org/gs...ar.shtml</a>
Originally Posted By leemac Reston is the best example that I know in the US. It is a very pleasant sleeper community. My uncle has lived there for about 20 years (since moving down from NH). I've never liked Irvine. Just more OC sprawl.
Originally Posted By ExpDave Columbia MD is another good example of a successful planned community. I lived there for a while and liked it a lot, better than I did Reston. Although I liked that too.
Originally Posted By believe You can consider some of Hong Kong a planned community, especially in the new territory areas where they just build new complexes and connect them up with the subway. I'm sure it's happening all over China also. Tear down the villages and build mixed use high rise condo complexes - it's pretty incredible.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>^^ I'd lump Sun City into the Atlantis mould - does little for me. Hyper-themed is the term that I use. It does have a great Gary Player golf course though!<<< I guess I like it so much, because you hardly find any themed hotels in Europe. Disney brought them over here and now other themeparks, especially in Germany are trying to copy them. However I also prefer small modern boutique hotels, especially in cities.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'm sure it's happening all over China also. Tear down the villages and build mixed use high rise condo complexes - it's pretty incredible.>> You don't even need to go to rural areas in China to see it - there are some that have become sleeper communities outside Shanghai. I hope SuperDry chimes in - he visited some recently including the unintentionally hysterical Thames Town.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I guess I like it so much, because you hardly find any themed hotels in Europe.>> IMHO it is a fine line. I prefer a broad architectural motif to themed hotels. I really don't like that Vegas-style architecture that Sol Kerzner's Sun City and Atlantis fall into - that said Atlantis in both Bahamas and Dubai has the best waterparks in the world.
