Originally Posted By kmovies When the competition in Battle Creek, MI started running commercials before movies, Robert Goodrich, owner of Goodrich Quality Theatres, stated that their theatres would never run commercials. Things change, so did he. Now they run commericals between movies, in the lobby, and before the movies. They have advertising in the bathrooms. Ultimately, Walt would have had to make changes. He could say, I'll never have an attraction that drops someone 6 stories (when those rides became popular at other parks) yet later sign off on TOT (a highly imaginative version of the ride). He could also watch his kids from a park bench riding a Merry-Go-Round and say that he wanted to build rides that the family could experience together (which implies the Merry-Go-Round wasn't) and yet, build a Carrousel. The only difference between the two is that a Merry-Go-Round features animals and a Carrousel horses.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe mr. x--I've said it before over and over--It's the cleanest place I've ever seen -consistently so no less(public place I'm talking) so though your language is ...you are correct. I hav no idea what people are talking about when they say it's gone downhill. I commented to my wife watching the main st. parade on New Year's Eve. that even the pooper scooper for the horses was dressed up as was the pooper scoop itself. Amazingly clean.
Originally Posted By avromark <<I think Walt would have gotten bored with theme parks the same way he got bored with cartoons and filmaking. He probably would have created something entirely different to occupy his studio and artists if ever given the chance to live longer.>> We know what his next plan was it was EPCOT, Walt wanted to change the way we live. You're right he won't settle. He always has to innovate. He also would ensure maximum reach for maximum appeal. In terms of Walt's image - I have a recording of him recording the Ford Magic Skyway narriation, he swore and immediately followed it with a command for the tape to be destroyed so no children would here him. Although i'm not old enough to remember Walt on TV, I do believe a strong figurehead (or in his case leader) has a lot to do with support, and with support comes money, and with money comes higher quality. Another great example of a great leader would be Sir Winston Churchill, or what Wayne (Mr needs protection to play well) Gretzky did he was an ambassador for his sport. The same way Walt spread "Disney" as an ambassador. If you offer a quality product and NEVER let down on maintenance it's easier to maintain and keep that level. If you drove you car without even an oil change, after awhile you'd be faced with a massive repair bill (or get to the point it's not worth salvaging, better to start fresh), but if you maintain it, no matter what it is it should last a long time and offer you a better level of service.
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Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "mr. x--I've said it before over and over--It's the cleanest place I've ever seen -consistently so no less(public place I'm talking) so though your language is ...you are correct. I hav no idea what people are talking about when they say it's gone downhill." I've sited some examples above, capecodjoe, but at some point it just comes down to what people see or don't or choose not to. I've seen people mesmerized by Cindy's Castle changing colors at night as they slosh thru trash in the Hub, totally oblivious. And if you mentioned it to them the next day, they'd say there was no such thing. I'm pretty grounded in reality. When something's dirty or unmaintained, I notice. I've been a regular at WDW since right after Opening Day. I live minutes away. I'm there weekly. I'm lot saying this because I enjoy it. I'm saying this because I want to see things look the way they did in the 70s and 80s.
Originally Posted By nats30 I was there in 2000 and in the orlando sentinel they showed a picture on their front page in color of main st usa and you could see dirt on the ground and lots of bulbs were out on the buildings. After the parade there were food boxes and paper cups being swept up in huge piles. In the old days that would not have happened because guest were more considerated and put their garbage in trash cans. In the 70s and 80s if a piece of paper was dropped it was swept up before it hit the ground. It was unheard of to see torn seats on the monorail. Different areas were freshly painted to the specification of that period in time. IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE WDW C LEAN AND MAINTAINED AGAIN.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe You and I just have 2 major disagreements-cleanliness of WDW and the OS. I've given examples of my side but I have not heard your side (OS that is). We've both been to WDW often but we look at it differently as we MAY look at life differently. That's okay. I'll keep on thinking WDW is clean and you won't. Neither of us wins or loses in this discussion.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Nats--I wholeheartedly disagree and you e.g. from the OS is an example LUV of the spin against disney and Nats didn't even realize he was helping my side of the discussion. It takes maybe one minute from the time trash hits Main St. before it's cleaned up. That's the best I've ever seen.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "You and I just have 2 major disagreements-cleanliness of WDW and the OS. I've given examples of my side but I have not heard your side (OS that is)." I have posted it on the orginal thread. And you posted zero examples to back up your contention that the Sentinel is anti-Disney. Telling me that business people you claim to know say the same thing means nothing. Give me some examples of the Sentinel writing lies about WDW. It's that simple. And I, by no means, luv the Sentinel. I just find your assertion to be ridiculous based upon living in the area most of my life. ''We've both been to WDW often but we look at it differently as we MAY look at life differently. That's okay. I'll keep on thinking WDW is clean and you won't. Neither of us wins or loses in this discussion." It's not a question of winning or losing. I just call 'em as I see 'em. WDW is by no means filthy or falling apart all over. But it also is in no way maintained to even the standards of say 10 years ago. "Nats--I wholeheartedly disagree and you e.g. from the OS is an example LUV of the spin against disney and Nats didn't even realize he was helping my side of the discussion. It takes maybe one minute from the time trash hits Main St. before it's cleaned up. That's the best I've ever seen." I can't quite understand part of this post, but I do resent the word 'spin' associated with me. I don't spin anything. That's the job of people in politics, or in Disney's case, marketing and publicity. And trash doesn't get picked up as soon as it falls. This isn't 1986. Sometimes it sits for minutes, hours and, even days. You're dreaming if you picture Disney cleaning up messes as soon as they happen.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 <<<I'm pretty grounded in reality. When something's dirty or unmaintained, I notice. I've been a regular at WDW since right after Opening Day. I live minutes away. I'm there weekly. I'm lot saying this because I enjoy it. I'm saying this because I want to see things look the way they did in the 70s and 80s.>> I know I'm not part of the regular group on here, and most of my comments go ignored, but I would like to comment on the above statements.. Our family loves WDW... we traveled to WDW every year for 20 yrs since 1984.. We drove from up north by car to spend two glorious weeks in WDW... We are now Floirda residents and love it here, and try to get to WDW at least once a month.. Did you ever consider the fact that because you are so close, and visit there weekly or even daily that you notice so much more then a visitor that comes on a once lifetime trip to WDW or even yearly or monthy like us.. Those individuals are so caught in the Magic of Disney that and living their dream of being there that maybe they miss a paper or two on the ground.. In your case, you are there all the time and the odds are greater that you will see something bad... We visit once a month now and still have not seen the amount of problems that you point out in your threads, but if you go looking I guess you can find them.. How do you enjoy yourself when your there.. I can't imagine that you do... I'm sure this thread will go un-noticed while you argue among yourselves... but I needed to say my piece... Thank you..
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I know I'm not part of the regular group on here, and most of my comments go ignored, but I would like to comment on the above statements.." Go right ahead. I won't ignore you ... "Our family loves WDW... we traveled to WDW every year for 20 yrs since 1984.. We drove from up north by car to spend two glorious weeks in WDW... We are now Floirda residents and love it here, and try to get to WDW at least once a month.." Thanks for the bio. "Did you ever consider the fact that because you are so close, and visit there weekly or even daily that you notice so much more then a visitor that comes on a once lifetime trip to WDW or even yearly or monthy like us.." Of course. That's only natural. But if, for example, I notice (because this happened once) a woman beating her child in a supermarket when everyone else walked by oblivious, was it my fault? No one else stepped in as she punched a seven-year-old with a closed fist, so it must not have happened. Even if at least six people were closer then I was to the incident. I use that example because when you use the very tired, familiarity breeds contempt line what you are saying is "Your comments don't really matter because you go too much. Don't go and you won't notice. The problems only exist because you choose to see them." "Those individuals are so caught in the Magic of Disney that and living their dream of being there that maybe they miss a paper or two on the ground.." One or two pieces of paper on the ground don't raise my ire. Wading thru cheeseburger baskets in the middle of Main Street or taking a child into a filthy bathroom at Disney-MGM Studios does. "In your case, you are there all the time and the odds are greater that you will see something bad... We visit once a month now and still have not seen the amount of problems that you point out in your threads, but if you go looking I guess you can find them.." Again, the blame game. I don't go looking for problems. But when I see them, I don't ignore them either and look at the pretty castle. "How do you enjoy yourself when your there.. I can't imagine that you do..." You're wrong. Very wrong. If I didn't enjoy WDW, I simply would stop going. Thankfully, that hasn't happen and I hope it never does! "I'm sure this thread will go un-noticed while you argue among yourselves... but I needed to say my piece... Thank you.." You're welcome. Feel better?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<If you drove you car without even an oil change, after awhile you'd be faced with a massive repair bill (or get to the point it's not worth salvaging, better to start fresh), but if you maintain it, no matter what it is it should last a long time and offer you a better level of service.>> On the other side of the coin, just to play devil's advocate here, is that changing the oil more often than is necessary is throwing money away. CU has done scientific testing even, using NYC taxi cabs as test subjects. They found that changing the oil every 3000 is not necessary; no difference in wear was shown between vehicles that had it changed at 3000 and those that had it changed at longer intervals ( I forget the actual figures.) My point is... I don't know. LOL. Well, my point is there are both maintanence and custodial issues at WDW and DL. Both need to be addressed accordingly, with regards to show. As a customer, I don't expect perfection, but I do expect to see things working properly and that the parks are clean. I do think there have been problems in both areas. Not huge problems, but problems. DL has gotten much better in the last few years, to the point where I would say any maintanence and custodial failures are more an anomoly. I haven't been to WDW in quite a while, so I can't comment on that resort.
Originally Posted By WALT DISNEY WORLD i dont thibk walt was a good theme park person i mean he did well on the magic kingdom but epcot is just horible and he created that
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Walt Disney did propose the idea of EPCOT, but he died in 1966, long before the EPCOT Center was designed and eventually opened in 1982.
Originally Posted By kmovies I know the work ethic of younger people isn't as good as it was years ago ... so I think that has a lot to do with it as well. I don't believe you will ever get the same service at a fast food restaurant today as you would have 20 years ago because they just can't hire as good of quality person as they could back then. And a fairly young park probably doesn't show the wear as an older park.
Originally Posted By kmovies Hiring for one park vs. four parks makes a difference as well. Standards do loosen when you need more employees.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe post 30 LUV-so much to respond to but briefly as I have to work out at some point here SPIN is OS--reread my sentence that YOU mentioned yourself>"from the OS" not your spin LUV I can't go around writing down everything that business people say and links and eg's anticipating I'll have to answer from an LPer years down the road LUV--We business people make million dollar decisions based on facts and 90% is a very valid reason why the OS does spin anti-Disney. I would put them up against you (Probably-as I don't know?- but WE have done very well in Orlando-How have you done? Point is we're saavy people who depend upon INTERPRETING events and when we CAN'T see spin, we stand to lose millions. I just don't have time to further explain but one more thing I said "There are NO winners or losers" You imply that I meant that you or I lose. NO WINNERS OR LOSERS! It just plain ludicrous to say trash sits for days. Now that is ridiculous. How can you stand to go, and do you have time to look up from the "trash" on the ground for days to see the beauty?
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