Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sadly this totally tallies with my experience, thankfully when I went to DLP and DL afterwards, those parks do not suffer in quite the same way (though DLP is not doing great when it comes to maintenance in some areas). If it were not for the old legacy stuff, Epcot and DAK, there would be no point in us going. The MK was indeed a sad place.>> You were a major discussion topic last night ... and the gist of it was I really want to see you come visit FLA, but I have got to limit your overall WDW time and absolutely your MK time or you will not have a magical time. You have the same problem as me ... you aren't a MAGICal fanboi ... and you are the type of guest Disney honestly no longer wants (especially in FLA) ... one who knows what Disney is capable of and what standards they should be following. Oh, and let me know if we can chat this week!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol - I am not sure Disney want me full stop, I know half the fans (if not more)on boards do not. No one wants to travel for 21 hours, and spend $10,000 to knit pick. Anyone who thinks any of us critique take joy in this must be on another plain. I have come to the conclusion, if I were fairly local, then it wouldn't be as big a deal. Also, if I am joe tourist who only has four or five days, I would not likely notice as much. But as I am a completist, who believes in relaxing a little while on vacation, and books 10-14 days for a tranatlantic vacation, then WDW is not for you. It seems like it is as there is so much to do, but when so much is in bad repair, or not very guest friendly (like priority dining, poor bus service that would never cut it in Europe, no room service in a deluxe after 10:30 at night etc.), well it can make you pretty cranky. If I treat WDW like a Brit, staying off site and it being one of many things one does, I will likely have a better time. The kids are getting older, and that means that Kennedy Space Center, Discovery Cove, and Universal will all become more viable options, and with staying in a quality resort off site, we will probably have a better time. WDW was not all bad last time, of course not. Swimming with the birds at AKL on my own, watching the fireworks from our balcony as giraffes stepped into view, a private tour of Star Tours because the cast member felt sorry that Mikey was too short to ride it (but had ridden several times in Paris because of the different laws), Jessica's first haircut in Main Street given by Micheal who used to shave me in DLP, seeing Marie Osmond, who I always had a crush on, reading candlelight processional, and of course seeing so many terrific friends and a winter bash made it an unforgeable trip. But the bad really made it feel like they were not delivering the value. Then we met Lulu and other LPers at DLP a few months later and the quality was so much higher over all (though far from perfect). Fast forward another 8 months, and our trip to Disneyland was another quantum leap forward again. It is a shame, because WDW is marketed as the flagship with the MK as the crown jewel. And yet friends such as Bloona and Disney Pete have never been to DLP (331 miles from us, a little further for them) and yet they keep getting drawn back to the MK. Do I begrudge their choices? ok, maybe a little, but the bigger issue is I want the MK and WDW to offer a consistantly high level of standards, and I am willing to pay for it. When I can spend 10 days at AKL vs. for the same price this year spending 2 weeks in Scotland including a luxury Loch Ness View cottage; a week in Marriott Villas at DLP and a week in a luxury appartment at Marriott Marbella, in the wealthy playground of Europe, you have to ask yourself during these times of austerity, does WDW offer value? Answers will vary. And yet, even if we return to the standard my wife and I experienced in 2000 at WDW, then I would still be a huge WDW fan. And I would like to be again.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>>999, it's just one more doom & gloom thread! I didn't notice on my last trip either. <<< <<<Not that there's anything wrong with that.... ;-)>>> >>>But, it does get old. <<< The only (slim) chance of the Orlando parks ever being run with the same care, professionalism, and excellence as they are in Anaheim is if we keep screaming louder and louder, to the point that the average guest starts to hear the discussion and notice what we're saying. WDP&R has a respect for DL fans it does not for us. And that needs to change. So expect the doom and gloom to increase, as it should. Time to pull out my favorite Al Lutz quote: "When you add into this mix the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess..." - Al Lutz 9/15/10
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The only (slim) chance of the Orlando parks ever being run with the same care, professionalism, and excellence as they are in Anaheim is if we keep screaming louder and louder ---- does everyone who is enamored with the left coast now remember what DL was like 3-5 years before the 50th ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and I am not one of those WDW biased people- I grew up on DL- and it holds a very special place in my heart
Originally Posted By MousDad >>does everyone who is enamored with the left coast now remember what DL was like 3-5 years before the 50th?<< How do you think that situation was remedied? Out of the goodness of TWDC's heart? Read post 23 again.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^ I was referring to the gushing about DL-- it was not that way a short time ago-- I personally think the demographics are quite different which allows the AP's at DL who are made up of a HUGE local fanbase who attend many times a year.because of being in a 7M population metro area with other large cities right there as well. Orlando has many AP's who are 1200 mile remotes and even Euro remotes..far less in number would be local and multi visit users. that doesn't mean they can't be vocal, but I am sure the passion thast exists in Southern California is much more driven being a 'local' park those fan bases will never be the same demographic makeup..the one wildcard for Florida is DVC owners who have a vested interest
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>does everyone who is enamored with the left coast now remember what DL was like 3-5 years before the 50th <<< Agreed, we have to keep talking and trying to get them to correct these problems.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and DL did not fall into disrepair due to DVC as some in another thread claim to be the cause for Florida's woes...it's management inattention - plain and simple
Originally Posted By MPierce >> When Seeker and I watched MSEP Saturday night I wasn't looking for problems (it was one thing I was looking forward to as I hadn't seen the 'new and improved' version at DCA in 2009)but when the parade is 45 minutes late and the 'new' lead float is being towed by tractor and has no lights working and other floats are missing lights and there are loads of missing performers ... well, baby, there ain't enough pixie dust in the world to keep me from noticing. << I hope it was a John Deere, and not one of those foreign Kubota tractors!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I hope it was a John Deere, and not one of those foreign Kubota tractors!<<< Only you would know about brands of tractors.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 I moved to a town of 35k people out in the middle of nowhere, 50 miles from the Canadian border, but we have THREE John Deere dealers!! Cracked me up when I saw it. There are towns with a few hundred here in ND with JD dealers. And they would all turn you out if you showed up with a Kubota!! Forget football teams and Nascar drivers, this is serious stuff.
Originally Posted By standor As I said before,DON'T GO TO THE PARKS, AND DON'T BUY DISNEY PRODUCTS.This is the only way that they will know that we want them to proceed to repair and improve the parks. We can't accept their not accepting our concerns. I know all you Disney diehards won't go along with my idea, but that is the only way Disney will comply. Try it for a while until they get the message.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I know all you Disney diehards won't go along with my idea, but that is the only way Disney will comply --- they will either comply, or move on to another business and leave theme parks behind if they are unprofitable. It's a roll of the dice isn't it ? When people stopped going to Riverview Park in Chicago because they were complaining about the maintenance/cleanliness of the park in the mid 60's- the owners listened, evaluated what to do, and closed the park in 1967. It is a warehouse district today
Originally Posted By MousDad >>As I said before,DON'T GO TO THE PARKS, AND DON'T BUY DISNEY PRODUCTS.<< Only problem with this philosophy, is that it would remove the customers who care from the picture, leaving only the blind, adoring masses. In a sense, this is probably what TDO wants. Sacrifice the annoying few to keep the status quo. The better course is to make as much noise as possible, to the point the blind, adoring masses start to notice. Online forums play a big part in this. Mainstream media is starting to. The good news is it seems to be going in the right direction. I wonder at what point some type of public, in-park displays of frustration might be in order. I'm not talking riots or pickets here, but subtle things. Wonder what Disney's response to something like that would be. Very intriguing. >>We can't accept their not accepting our concerns.<< I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I moved to a town of 35k people out in the middle of nowhere, 50 miles from the Canadian border, but we have THREE John Deere dealers!! Cracked me up when I saw it. There are towns with a few hundred here in ND with JD dealers. And they would all turn you out if you showed up with a Kubota!! Forget football teams and Nascar drivers, this is serious stuff. << I love that part of the country. When the local TV programing is sponsored by Hagedorn Manure Spreaders, you know you are with real people.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Only problem with this philosophy, is that it would remove the customers who care from the picture, leaving only the blind, adoring masses. In a sense, this is probably what TDO wants. Sacrifice the annoying few to keep the status quo. The better course is to make as much noise as possible, to the point the blind, adoring masses start to notice. Online forums play a big part in this. Mainstream media is starting to. The good news is it seems to be going in the right direction. I wonder at what point some type of public, in-park displays of frustration might be in order. I'm not talking riots or pickets here, but subtle things. Wonder what Disney's response to something like that would be. Very intriguing. << I agree it is our only real hope of turning things around. Continue going, just be frugal with your money, and complain when you deem it necessary.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Only problem with this philosophy, is that it would remove the customers who care from the picture, leaving only the blind, adoring masses. In a sense, this is probably what TDO wants. Sacrifice the annoying few to keep the status quo.<<< Exactly. With out complaining, and even going, we deserve the parks we have.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I wonder at what point some type of public, in-park displays of frustration might be in order. I'm not talking riots or pickets here, but subtle things. Wonder what Disney's response to something like that would be. Very intriguing. << They'd probably ban you from WDW property, since it's private property. Dunno how successful they'd be, but that's probably what they would threaten to do. >> As I said before,DON'T GO TO THE PARKS, AND DON'T BUY DISNEY PRODUCTS. << I tend to agree with this approach. It's not up to me to change Disney's mind by 'protesting' or complaining in the parks. Ridiculous to think I'm going to pay money to complain to them. Efforget that. I'll be a regular paying customer again when they get it together. If they never do, it was fun while it lasted.
