Originally Posted By WilliamK99 In Germany, the trains are religiously ontime. I wonder how they could be on time all the time, and in US train system sucks?
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 It's actually cheaper in Germany too, I can take a train anywhere in Bavaria for 29 euros for the entire day for my family. So I can go 100 to 200 miles for about 35 bucks, can't do that with Amtrak.
Originally Posted By Mr X I never found Amtrak to be particularly cheap. Should be, for what you get. But it isn't.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd Well if you look at how air traffic control is run it is controlled by one organization. That is not how it works with the train system. Multiple sections of track are controled by different companies and it is disjointed and out of control. There is no way to create one master schedule for all trains on the entire train line. What is happening is the controllers are constantly moving trains around as they enter and exit their tracks. There is no schedule for freight. There are certain jobs that go out at approximate times, but the trains don't go out till they are built and there is really no guarantee when that could be. Our train system is primarily built for freight. Other then some commuter lines, passanger service is a very minute percentage of it's usage. If it completely disappeared the economic affect would be minimal so there is no effort into creating a better system.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 If the US modeled it train system on Europe or Japan, it would be used more. Until we do that Amtrak will be a waste of time and money to use.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yup, sounds pretty on the money Sherry. Too bad, too, since America has such beautiful scenery and train travel SHOULD be a joy.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<If the US modeled it train system on Europe or Japan, it would be used more. Until we do that Amtrak will be a waste of time and money to use.>>> The only way it would work would be to build completely seperate lines for passanger service and the only way I could even see Americans taking to train travel would be the high speed bullit trains and only for short distances or through scenic areas. It would be impossible to revise the freight system for passanger service.
Originally Posted By Mr X The only way I could see any Amtrak improvement would be if some private company were to come along and smoke them service-wise. Does this not happen because it's not feasible? There are plenty of routes I think would be great for train travel...Texas, the Eastern seaboard, California etc...
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<The only way I could see any Amtrak improvement would be if some private company were to come along and smoke them service-wise.>>> But this other company would have to get access to the track warrents. The companies that run now run off of agreements that are 50 to 100 years old. Amtrak runs under Union Pacific's agreements. I don't know if another company could even get access to the train lines. The railroad is an entity that is almost seperate from the government.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<My husband works for Union Pacific. Amtrak always has priority over freight. If there is a delay it is only to get a freight train into a siding to allow Amtrak to pass.>> Well, yes and no (according to what I’ve read and experienced in the Midwest and east. I don’t work for the UP and I’ve never taken the Zephyr or the Starlight so I don’t know from personal experience.) If the freight is in front of Amtrak it pulls onto the siding and lets Amtrak pass. If the freight is coming towards Amtrak on the main line Amtrak pulls onto the siding and lets the freight pass. At times Amtrak will wait 20 minutes or so for the freight to come through on the main line. I'm not dumping on the freight companies. They own the tracks... they get to make the rules. I just believe that Amtrak should be funded so the level that they could build and maintain their own tracks. <<Does this not happen because it's not feasible?>> Correct. Long distance passenger service is subsidized throughout the world. You just can't provide the service for what people would be willing to pay.
Originally Posted By Mr X **I'm not dumping on the freight companies. They own the tracks... they get to make the rules.** I don't have a problem with that, it's the lack of coordination that is a really killer to me. Obviously there are major issues here as people have already discussed, but if the situation is so extreme that the trains are ALWAYS late, why not simply adjust the schedules to account for that. It just sounds amazingly disorganized...to the point where it also seems pretty scary safety-wise as well. If they are so mixed up that nobody knows when and where some train will come along on a given day, what does that say for the safety of rail travel in America? Like, yikes! RT, being a train buff I wish you could come over to Japan sometime...it's pretty neat the system they have set up over here...I think you'd especially enjoy the luxury train from Tokyo to Hokkaido (named Casseopeia) which I've never taken but I've heard it's amazing. When I visit Hokkaido, that's the way I'll go I think.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Obviously there are major issues here as people have already discussed, but if the situation is so extreme that the trains are ALWAYS late, why not simply adjust the schedules to account for that.>> Well, they aren't ALWAYS late. The Empire Builder between St. Paul and Chicago is almost always on time. Of course the Empire Builder is probably Amtrak's premier train and the track between St. Paul and Chicago is very good so the trains can really haul ass. In most parts of the country Amtrak is limited to 79 mph or below because of the lousy track. The Empire Builder between St. Paul and Chicago will run 90 mph+ on major portions of the route. Standard (non-high-speed) Amtrak trains can easily run at 110 mph or so. Unfortunately there is very little track where that speed would be safe. The problem with padding schedules is what do you do when the train is not delayed at any point? Either passengers miss the train because it arrives and leaves early, or the train sits at the station for 20 minutes (or whatever the slack time was) waiting for the scheduled time to leave. Personally, I think Amtrak would gain a lot of public confidence by doing just that. I believe most passengers wouldn't mind station stops that took longer than necessary if it meant they could count on the schedule. Now that all Amtrak trains are non-smoking, some passengers would probably LOVE station stops that took a little more time! I would love to travel to Japan for many reasons -- not just for the trains (though that would be way cool). It just always seems rather unaffordable. If we gave up Disney for a year we could probably do it, but I don't know that I could do that!!
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<It just sounds amazingly disorganized...to the point where it also seems pretty scary safety-wise as well. If they are so mixed up that nobody knows when and where some train will come along on a given day, what does that say for the safety of rail travel in America?>>> There is a system to know when trains are on the tracks or not. It is all computerized. The controlers know where the trains are. The tracks have sensors that triggers the signals when trains enter areas. The crew know how to read the signals plus just like an air traffic controller they are in communication with the train controllers as well. In areas that are prone to rock fall you will see wire strung along the tracks. If a rock hits the wires it will trigger a red block for the section and no trains can enter that section. Of course when this happens, people on that Amtrak train are going to be late. If an Amtrak train is pulled into a siding odds are the freight train was already too far into the line to stop thim. It takes several miles to stop those mile long freight trains and the controllers don't always have a lot of time to plan ahead who will be going first into the track. Sometimes it will just be a matter of who gets there first. They can stop an Amtrak faster then a freight. Unfortunately that is just physics. You can go ahead and dog on the freight system. It is used to its maximum capacity right now and they are cutting budgets everywhere. You have no idea all the stories I get to hear.
Originally Posted By Mr X **If we gave up Disney for a year we could probably do it, but I don't know that I could do that!!** We've got Disney too.
Originally Posted By markymouse If you've ever driven down a long stretch of I-5, with just two lanes heading each direction, with one and too often both lanes full of semis that slow down on every one of those million or so little hills I-5 travels along, and all you want to do is get to Disneyland at something better than 50 miles per hour, you know that train travel isn't the only area where passenger traffic and freight traffic impact each other. We just all have to do our best to make it work. What a lot of people here, including the original poster, are frustrated with aren't the delays but the lack of information and lack of consideration that unfortunately seems to happen more often than not. People have posted good reasons why so much is impossible to predict. But it is still pretty frustrating.
Originally Posted By Mr X Interesting info, Sherry. I don't know...not knowing which train till go into the track first? Not always a lot of time to plan ahead? That sounds horribly disorganized to me...an accident waiting to happen as it were. I realize the system is computerized, but I sure hope it's in better shape than some of the other stuff I've read about! RT, I agree with you...I think if they planned for those delays and had long stops it would be MUCH better. First of all, the constant complaints of delays would diminish. And secondly if a train arrived early (and they INFORMED the passengers when to reboard and all that) it would be fine. People could actually get out, grab a snack or whatever, stretch their legs. No problem. The annoying thing about taking the train down to Florida was all the sitting around, never knowing when we'd start moving again. That got real old real fast.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<I don't know...not knowing which train till go into the track first? Not always a lot of time to plan ahead? That sounds horribly disorganized to me...an accident waiting to happen as it were.>>> Well here's the deal. Crossing into a main line isn't like running through a stop sign. There are a whole series of signals. The first set are going to slow down any train approaching. Second set even more if a train is to be put in the siding they will get a series of signals to stop. Now lets say the train that was supposed to stop doesn't stop and continues through the last red block. There isn't going to be an instantaneous head on collision. Odds are there is still time to call that train and stop it. I hear of trains going through red blocks rather frequently. A head on collision is unlikely to happen. What is far more likely to happen is a derailment. But even this is less likely to happen to a passenger train. They are shorter and lighter. The derailments happen to the freight trains. They are heavy and long and that makes them more prone to derailment. Instead of worrying about hitting another train, you need to be more worried about the idiot in the car trying to make it through the crossing before the train. The only way that I can see them selling train travel is to sell it as a luxery, like the Orient Express. Poor customer experiences will only drive people away. There is no way to get around delays. The Ski Train takes people up to Winter Park and it is in late more often then not, but people love it. The scenery is beautiful, the staff is friendly, and there is lots of booze.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << A head on collision is unlikely to happen.>> Yup... very few cornfield meets these days. sherrytodd obviously knows what she is talking about. Trains on the mainline are very tightly controlled. It is cool to have someone who really knows verify the stuff that I've read!
