Originally Posted By Bob Benchley "Meanwhile, there is still nothing right wing about anti semitism." You can keep repeating this little mantra of yours, but it won't make it any more true.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think I used a fairly authoritative source to show that antisemitism is the exclusive domain of neither the right nor the left, but has been been adopted at times by BOTH. Stop the pissing match with Douglas and come up with something to prove your point.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think many of you in California have no real idea what the right-wing is like, outside of what you read/hear in the media. I live among them here in SW Missouri. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of them ARE NOT antisemitic. In fact they tend to be some of the strongest supporters of Israel and the Jewish people in the United State. That is partly because of the large number of significant Christian locations in Israel. Partly because they see Israel as the one reliable ally we have in the Middle East. Partly because they hate Islam and "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". But for whatever reason, they are definitely not antisemitic.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 RT, I said from the beginning that anti-Semitism spans the political spectrum. But remember, I've known those MO evangelicals a lot longer than you (they're family and in fact I'm sitting in MO as we speak) and I also know a lot of Jews in NY who are way less than enthused with their brand of "support," which is ultimately dependent on their converting to Christianity. There's also a difference between support, of whatever stripe, or opposition to the policies of Israel and anti-Semitism itself. While one can be in anti-Semite and be left-wing, right wing, or apolitical – and I'm not sure how many times I have to say this – the organized groups in the US that are anti-Semitic or white supremacist - the ones that governments of presidents of both parties have been keeping an eye on for years – tend to be right wing. The only way one can deny this is to assert laughably that neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups aren't right wing. But when one looks at what else these groups espouse besides the anti-Semitism, racism, and homophobia, that assertion falls apart instantly. "Like you tried to do in #53?" Tried and succeeded.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I'm not sure how many times I have to say this – the organized groups in the US that are anti-Semitic or white supremacist - the ones that governments of presidents of both parties have been keeping an eye on for years – tend to be right wing.> You can say it over and over, but it's still just your opinion. And there is still nothing right wing about anti semitism.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Which again, is still just your opinion. And there is still nothing right wing about anti semitism.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Also the opinion of the Justice Dept under presidents of both parties. Legitimate conservatives admit these groups are (far) right wing, and say (rightly) that they don't represent mainstream conservatism. I don't know why this is difficult for you but keep on preaching to your choir of one.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder This just in- surveillance footage of Doug at his computer this morning: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/old-guy-computer-grumpy-4787834.jpg">http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z...7834.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Stop the pissing match with Douglas and come up with something to prove your point.> Trouble is he can't RT, so he'll just keep repeating the liberal mantra. I mean, if he spent some time maybe he'd come up with some biased liberal survey of anti-semitic groups, but that's still a subjective opinion. He can't prove that there is anything right wing about anti-semitism, but he'll keep asserting there is, and then pretend it's me that is playing pigeon chess. Meanwhile, SPP makes another swipe at me instead of addressing the issue, just like a good party thug would. And the liberals can't understand why I think fascism is left wing.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It really isn't hard to find this stuff... A couple of examples: <<In an exceptionally well-crafted book, The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism: Jews, Israel, and Liberal Opinion, Bernard Harrison, a distinguished British philosopher, examines why the political left has become so comfortable with anti-Semitism newly dressed up as anti-Zionism. He demonstrates how it has spread to infect “left-liberal” discourse on many other levels and he explores how the anti-racist left finds itself, ironically, in the thick of fomenting one of the earliest forms of racism.>> Source: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/book/the-resurgence-of-anti-semitism">http://www.jewishbookcouncil.o...semitism</a> And another... <<The emerging extremist right-wing movement in the United States appears inclined to keep anti-Semitism at arm’s length and to guard against any expressions of anti-Semitism at its forums, two local Jewish community relations agencies reported today. The conclusion emerged from an appraisal by the Jewish Community Council of Metropolitan Boston and the New England office of the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith of a “13-hour talkathon, ” held Sunday in Boston under the title of “New England Rally for God and Country.” Read more: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.jta.org/1963/01/10/archive/extreme-right-wing-movement-reported-avoiding-anti-semitism#ixzz34k1R7GLg">http://www.jta.org/1963/01/10/...4k1R7GLg</a> Now I know right-wing examples of antisemitism could be found. Not even Douglas would dispute that. But I don't think it can be labeled either a right wing or a liberal phenomenon. In fact it is a vile form of racism that spans all political persuasions. I am NOT right-wing. I'm not even conservative. I consider myself a left-leaning moderate. But I try to look at issues without pre-conceived notions. Something I don't find very often here at LP.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Not even Douglas would dispute that.> Not even me? I am not the one that labels opinions as facts.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "He can't prove that there is anything right wing about anti-semitism, but he'll keep asserting there is, and then pretend it's me that is playing pigeon chess." It's not my fault you have horrible reading comprehension. I said - in my very first post here - that anti-Semitism transcends left -right politics and can be found everywhere. However, I also said that most organized anti Semitic groups today were right wing, because that's a fact. And I said how one could tell - those are the groups the government (for decades) has kept an eye on, and their other positions tell you where on the spectrum they lie. Of course there are left -leaning anti Semites. I said so in post one. But most of the organized a-s and White Power (which are almost always anti-Semitic as well) groups are right wing. Fact, not opinion.
Originally Posted By Bob Benchley Ever since I undeaded myself in 2006 and followed LP I've noticed a pattern. Somebody will say something against the right that Douglasdubh disagrees with, and he'll say "I disagree" or "no, it's not" or some similar retort without any link or evidence to support his position. Others will respond with links, and he'll just say "that doesn't refute me" or whatever, but he'll never post a link. Ever. And then he makes a big deal about how no one refuted him, no one presented any evidence, and he'll just keep saying that like a robot. He'll claim to post facts, not opinions, but he never shows evidence of it. I don't remember him ever backing up anything he's ever said with a link to even one thing. Maybe he has, but I sure never have seen it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yes, Douglas could certainly provide more evidence. I also think some, perhaps on both sides, confuse correlation with cause and effect. Being right-wing does not make you antisemitic and being antisemitic does not make you right-wing. Does a correlation appear to be there? Yes it does. The far right tends to not trust the government, lawyers, Wall Street bankers, etc... anyone in a position of authority and influence. And since Jewish people tend to be over-represented in those professions (for instance although they represent only 1.75% of the U.S. population, they hold 12 out of 100 U.S. Senate senate seats - 12%), Jewish people tend to get lumped in with the "damned politicians, lawyers and bankers" that they resent. Cause and effect is not there, but correlation is. (And obviously they are not over-represented in those professions BECAUSE they are Jewish, but because they tend to be more educated, have a greater work ethic, and a greater involvement in community than the average American does. Once again not cause and effect, but correlation).
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Yes, Douglas could certainly provide more evidence.> What evidence am I supposed to provide? If a liberal asserts an opinion is not a fact, what evidence could a conservative post that the liberal would accept? Especially someone like Bob Benchley, who usually only pipes up on a subject like this after Dabob has spent several pages making claims that can't be backed up, but whose memory always favors the liberal? Maybe instead of complaining about me, he could help Dabob prove his case, if that's what he believes?
Originally Posted By Bob Benchley "Yes, Douglas could certainly provide more evidence." Try ANY evidence. I nominate this for the all-time understatement on Laughing Place. I believe it would go a little easier where DouglasDubh is concerned if he would provide something to back up what he says. Road Trip, you did some research and said it wasn't hard to find. Singleparkpassholder did provide a link and I did follow the sources used for the article he provided and it actually IS a lot more credible than Douglasdubh would like to say. Dabob provided information too but Douglas merely dismissed it without any contrasting information. And Douglasdubh never does. He demands it of others but never gives his own. That isn't honest debating, it's just plain baiting. I don't think we would have these threads that go back and forth and back and forth if Douglasdubh would stop acting this way and provide information that supports his viewpoint. Simply repeating "there's nothing right wing about anti-Semitism" without showing why that is so is just saying nothing over and over again.
Originally Posted By Bob Benchley "What evidence am I supposed to provide?" I don't know, but how about something that backs up what you say? That would be good for starters. "If a liberal asserts an opinion is not a fact, what evidence could a conservative post that the liberal would accept?" Your obvious dislike of the liberal viewpoint goes to the extreme if you continue to label this way. You are using it as a pejorative and that's disrespectful. You seem to indicate "liberals" are incapable of comprehending or digesting anything you might provide. But in your case, how would we know since you've never done it?
