Originally Posted By Dabob2 Columbine HAD an armed guard. VA Tech had multiple armed guards. Just sayin'.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<CNN iReporter Jason Asselin applauded the NRA's stance, proposing that U.S. troops returning from war zones could serve as armed guards.">> These same morons will tell you we need our guns to protect our freedoms from "the government", yet they want armed military everywhere? Yeah - great idea...
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Looks like they are doubling down on the initial statement. My guess for their next move would be stalling tactics to dilute the rage. They know some change is coming, and want to keep it to a minimum. Now it will be up to the American public to keep the flames burning in the form of rallies and protests. These callous creeps don't seem to give a rat's behind about the terror those innocents endured. If they had any true compassion, surely they would be more reasonable. Every NRA proponent should be required to look at every single video and picture of the crime scene, much as German citizens were required to tour the concentration camps after the liberation.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Columbine HAD an armed guard. VA Tech had multiple armed guards. Just sayin'." Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING will eliminate these tradgic events. But soft targets draw the crazies like a bug zapper. You notice these never happen at hard targets. Like has anyone ever tried blasting their way through the Sheriff's department. And I would prefer NOT to have the armed guards IN the school but at the egress points outside the school. First good fencing is more important than gueards.That way you limit egress points. But a guard at the access points would help.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I think one of the goals is to not turn schools into armed fortresses. Fences around all of them will certainly make them look that way. We complain about the way airport security has changed since 9/11 and how far over the top they go, but fences around schools and armed guards at points of entry aren't much different.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Columbine HAD an armed guard. VA Tech had multiple armed guards. Just sayin'." <Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING will eliminate these tradgic events.> And no one's saying they will. The goal is to cut down on them. Obviously, armed guards did nothing to stop the carnage at Columbine or VA Tech. Steps as have been proposed here (and many other places); reinstituting the assault weapons ban, banning sales of huge clips of ammo, taxing guns and ammo, requiring safety training and awareness courses (so that a woman with a mentally challenged son would learn why allowing him access to them is not a good idea), closing gun show and internet loopholes, instituting increased liability on guns obtained legally that kill accidentally or intentionally (encouraging people to keep them locked and secured if kids are coming over, for instance)... all that will help. As will reform of the mental health system (which should actually improve at least a little under Obamacare anyway in terms of access, but more comprehensive reforms can be looked at as well). <But soft targets draw the crazies like a bug zapper. You notice these never happen at hard targets. Like has anyone ever tried blasting their way through the Sheriff's department.> A guy blasted his way through Fort Hood. <And I would prefer NOT to have the armed guards IN the school but at the egress points outside the school. First good fencing is more important than gueards.That way you limit egress points. But a guard at the access points would help.> Then you have the armed camp problem, as SPP says. And is just one enough? Most schools have more than one entry point, and if you were to limit it to just one, could someone sneak in the back way? At the very least you'd need good surveillance equipment for the back side. Who's going to pay for all these guards and surveillance equipment? And even if the "hard target" theory held water (and I think Columbine, VA Tech, and Fort Hood throw that into question), you can't harden everything. There would still be shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, and just everyday city and suburban streets. Doesn't it make more sense to deal with the tools of death (in a way that doesn't affect people who use them responsibly, and I know plenty of people who do)?
Originally Posted By EdisYoda And yet another shooting today... In New York State 4 fire fighters were shot with 2 being killed while responding to a fire. Does this mean that all fire fighters now should wear bullet proof vests? The story is still developing on this, so I will leave it for now.
Originally Posted By barboy ///LOL! What an idea. I can see the soldiers from Apocalypse Now returning to patrol schools./// Or worse we might get the "Bunny"(Platoon) or "Animal Mother" (Full Metal Jacket) types standing post.
Originally Posted By leobloom Animal Mother! Haha -- hadn't thought of him. Yeah, Full Metal Jacket High School. Scary thought.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer There are ways to design a secure facility without making it look like it is. Keep doors locked, limit access to certain points around the perimeter, and keep clear sightlines of the grounds from the main building, for example. As part of the active shooter response plan where I work, I created a number of automatic door closure scripts that I can run on our access control system. Once I have word from the incident commander, I can force the shooter along certain routes just by remotely closing and locking doors and making sure every elevator can only go to the first floor where the exits are. The idea is to deny him easy access to the rest of the facility while giving him a clear pathway out.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Active shooter response plan? At your job site? Wow. What have we come to?
Originally Posted By barboy ///Active shooter response plan? At your job site? Wow. What have we come to?/// Exactly! Talk about organizational paranoia. Please tell me that this isn't a hospital setting which has a cafeteria selling lipid laced burgers and fries and unsecured compressed gas cyliders with 3000+ psi?
Originally Posted By fkurucz **Active shooter response plan? At your job site? Wow. What have we come to?** It's "Uniquely American"
Originally Posted By TomSawyer My daughter's K-8 school has an active shooter plan, as do most schools across the country. It's a sad fact of life here in the USA. The day of the shootings in Newtown my daughter's school did an active shooter drill. Classroom doors were locked, blinds drawn, lights turned off and the kids hid under their desks silently until the all-clear. Then they talked about what had happened. Armed guards aren't really a deterrent. Denying access to where they want to go is a far better deterrent.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck This reminds me of the nuclear drills that kids had to go through in the 50's and 60's. Run, duck and cover! Who needs fictitious monsters when we have the real thing. Wild eyed, foaming at the mouth madmen wielding the power of life and death.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***This reminds me of the nuclear drills that kids had to go through in the 50's and 60's. Run, duck and cover!*** And probably just about as meaningless, too. Until they address the root of the problem, these are just so many bandaids slapped over a gaping wound.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer It isn't meaningless, Mr. X. Even with strong gun control there will still be people out there with legal access to guns or other weapons.
Originally Posted By Mr X It's meaningless in the sense that a gunman will simply find a target softer than yours. There are tens of millions of targets out there - got a plan to shore 'em all up? A plan that would be as effective as simply taking these offensive weapons out of their hands?
