Originally Posted By pitapan16 But we have all these areas that failed to work as strictly California-based attractions, and the wine cellar/movie thing is no exception. The California theme is a "ruin" that toon-based attractions are being built over." The California based areas did not fail to work because of the "California" theme. If They had used Disney's America or Westcot theme's for the second gate with California Adventure's execution, funding cutbacks, and other things that contributed to it's limited appeal, those parks would be just as poor. Funny thing is, with such a great theme and we're getting the Toon-i-zation of the place, lol. Well, kind of. It is a Disney park, and Disney is, well, Disney. People WANT to see Disney in the parks, and they don't mind what we consider "loose" connections as long as the outcome is quality and fun. I don't think they'll abondone California at this park(well, its kinda obvious they won't walk from it with the plans) but I do beleive their intention is to tweak the California theme with a stronger connection of what many guests to the park called for, and that is more Disney, literally(characters and what not). With that in mind, I think Disney's California or Eureka would be potential good names.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <"It's not the theme -- it's the execution of the theme" And the execution makes little sense.> That's right. But just because it was executed poorly, doesn't mean that using the them 'California' is a bad idea. (this marks the 784th time I've posted this same point)
Originally Posted By barboy Jim, you don't find a California theme inside the real California asinine? I do, I definitely do! Just out of curiosity how would you take to the idea if Vegas's New York, New York Hotel was erected in say.....Manhattan?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^But DCA is not like that. This is where these discussions often get off track because the arguments try to reduce DCA to something less than what it really is. The theme is much broader than that what that one Vegas hotel has to offer. One visit to DCA and you can experience everything from a fictional Hollywood backlot to Sierra water rafting to a seaside amusement pier and much more. There are plenty of additional subjects and regions of the state that DCA can tackle, such as San Francisco and the Bay Area, which are sorely missing from the mix.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo California is one of the most diverse places on the planet (with an increadible history). New York and Vegas are not. As for Disney = characters - never used to. Disney used to me quality immersion (I miss those days).
Originally Posted By barboy ///But DCA is not like that./// Well.....at the most basic level it really is. Now, to be fair you're right about it being nowhere near a great overall comparison(DCA/California vs New York, New York/ Manhattan). But many people scoff(like me) at planting a California themed park in California. Many laugh at the idea because they simply think: "Hey, why not ride a real 'woodie' instead of a steel replica or get in a bonafide kevlar or rubber raft and head down the South Fork of the American River rather than a Disneyfied human made 'river'. It boils down to this: when two items are within reach which do you grab---the real or the replica? Because when I'm in Playa Del Carmen, Mexico I don't eat at Taco Bell.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Hey, why not ride a real 'woodie' instead of a steel replica or get in a bonafide kevlar or rubber raft and head down the South Fork of the American River rather than a Disneyfied human made 'river'.<< Why visit Main Street, USA when you could visit the actual "old town" section of several major cities to experience something more authentic? Why look at animatronic critters on the Jungle Cruise instead of visiting any of the fine zoos that are all around to see real live animals? Why drive Autopia cars when you can drive full size cars just outside on the Santa Ana Freeway? It always amazes me that people take the California theme so "literally" in ways they don't with Disneyland. Just because the theme wasn't executed to its fullest potential, doesn't mean it wasn't a worthy theme.* *© Jim in Merced Productions. Used with permission.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Why visit Main Street, USA when you could visit the actual "old town" section of several major cities to experience something more authentic?/// Where? I've been through the US, all over the US and I have yet to see anything like Main St USA......I'm talking KS, Nebraska, Iowa Indiana too--- well, there is this mall, the Grove, in the middle of LA that came after Dl's. And besides if there is a real Main St. in KS or Iowa that is a seriously long ways from Ananheim, no? Again, when two things one being real and being a replica are within reach which do yo grab? ///Why look at animatronic critters on the Jungle Cruise instead of visiting any of the fine zoos that are all around to see real live animals?/// That's very weak..... the Jungle Cruise is playfully set in Africa, Asia and South America and is not themed after animals per se and certainly not zoos. The attraction is based on a parodiable and anthropomorphic boat ride in jungles around the world. ///Why drive Autopia cars when you can drive full size cars just outside on the Santa Ana Freeway?/// EXACTLY! I have always thought Autopia is pointless since the real McCoy of fender bumping noise machines is 10 rock throws away with Highway 5--- so I'm consistent on that one.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “But many people scoff(like me) at planting a California themed park in California. Many laugh at the idea because they simply think….” Yes, the concept does seem far fetched, but anyone who has spent time in the park knows that there’s more to it than just a bunch of rides built around some vague idea of “California”. Why people who know the place inside and out continue to assert this is strange to me. As others have pointed out, the theme of the park has never been the problem. The issue has always been with execution and content. “…when two items are within reach which do you grab---the real or the replica? Because when I'm in Playa Del Carmen, Mexico I don't eat at Taco Bell.” Using that as a measure you’ve just invalidated half the things at Disneyland. How long is a flight from LA to New Orleans’ French Quarter? What, about 3 hours?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I've been through the US, all over the US and I have yet to see anything like Main St USA......I'm talking KS, Nebraska, Iowa Indiana too--- well, there is this mall, the Grove, in the middle of LA that came after Dl's." Well of course you haven't. Disneyland's Main Street is representative of a small American town about 100 years ago. Those kinds of town barely exist anymore, if at all.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Where? I've been through the US, all over the US and I have yet to see anything like Main St USA<< Which is exactly my point. These are THEME parks, so there isn't anything close to being REAL in them. So when people say "why ride GRR when I could just go on a REAL rafting trip" the response is the same. Of course you could, but it wouldn't be in a mountain that looks like a grizzly bear, with geysers and such. Just because the theme WAS "California" doesn't mean that they ever literally intended to duplicate the state.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^I think that was his point Hans, because DL represent different places that takes us in the past (and one place in the future ) it makes it timeless and a sense of being transported. That's sort of what gives DL its vibe. DCA doesnt really transport you anywhere all that different from where you can see a few hours drive in any direction. And man everytime I throw up these arguments, I feel I aged 7 years lol. Seriously, as you know, my days of destroying DCA are pretty much over. I moved on. But sure, I understand his argument 100%. Hell, I use to argue it . I think for me though, I see they are trying to rectify that a little BY giving us the 1930's entrance, the old style Hollywood of yore, the Victorian Era of PP and etc. That's the thing, they KNOW they screwed it up, that guest complain it feels like, well, a basic theme park of today and so they are throwing up those time references to make people feel like they are transported through different times of California history. As JIM said (somewhere once I think), its not the theme, its the execution of the theme and IF they gave us a California of the past, the one highlighted in Golden Dreams, vs the one of 'today' which they did, it mightve sold a little better. There was simply no magic behind it, just felt like a weird walk through infomercial for the Californian tourism board. And oh yeah, some actual E tickets wouldve been nice as well .
Originally Posted By pitapan16 Jim, you don't find a California theme inside the real California asinine? I do, I definitely do!" -Well no, I don't. Example could be Tokyo DisneySea, which is located at the footsteps of the sea, in Tokyo Bay, not to mention a resonably small country island, Japan, which has had great influence in it's culture from the SEA. OR, how about the American Adventure at Epcot in AMERICA. Or how about the idea of Disney's America, which was to be built in America on America's birth lands(north east.) And as far as the example of Main St. USA, another good example, I HAVE seen main streets that resemble Main St. USA. try Placerville, old town Folsom, Sutter Creek, Grass Valley, exc. All of which are even in CA. It works for me, California is just to broad to be considered a weak theme even though it is located IN California. As far as Guests go, I think the people will come as long as you give theme reason. The theme is not the problem, it's the execution.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “I think that was his point Hans, because DL represent different places that takes us in the past (and one place in the future )” Okay, I get that, but I disagree that this fact makes the theme laughable or less valid as a foundation on which to build themed entertainment. That simply is not the case, as many of DCA’s attractions and features have been successful and well received. Most of the things that haven’t fared well or are rightfully criticized have nothing to do with the theme at all. As is often the case, the criticisms against the premise of the park’s storyline are mostly just a matter of opinion. “it makes it timeless and a sense of being transported. That's sort of what gives DL its vibe. DCA doesnt really transport you anywhere all that different from where you can see a few hours drive in any direction.”‘ It’s more than a few hours from Anaheim to the Sierra Nevada, Cannery Row or a vintage beach boardwalk. Even if that were not the case, I think the argument that the California theme is sound still stands. Interestingly, Knott’s has always been about California, and yet few locals (if any) here have expressed any complaints about that park’s theme over the years. “And man everytime I throw up these arguments, I feel I aged 7 years lol.” Me too. I can’t believe I’ve been sucked into this whirling vortex yet again.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Me too. I can’t believe I’ve been sucked into this whirling vortex yet again.<< Hans Reinhardt, you above all should know a black hole when you see one!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Now if we were talking about steaming piles from Disney, the Black Hole would be it.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^Wow, you actually got my joke. You're much sharper than people say you are.
