Originally Posted By barboy And I agree big time that as far as Disney theme parks go Disney horrendously executed DCA. And I fully believe, again, the theme is laughable. And I usually put in the place when I just happen to be on property looking for a downtown Disney/Dl visit with a hopper ticket. Actually, this last time I just spent 5 nights on property and I never entered DCA.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones >>Me too. I can’t believe I’ve been sucked into this whirling vortex yet again.<< My God, it's a discussion forum. People want to discuss it. Just because you have before, doesn't mean others haven't, or are tired of discussing it.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>Interestingly, Knott’s has always been about California, and yet few locals (if any) here have expressed any complaints about that park’s theme over the years.<<< Because Walter Knott bought up a real, authentic Ghost Town (Calico) and literally transported it to Buena Park. Those buildings have a history, a sense of place, a soul. Which was almost completely lacking in DCA, except for some of the stuff around GRR. The sad thing about Knotts is that Cedar Fair is continuously shrinking Ghost Town and diminishing it in the shadows of ever more big steel rides they keep adding. Making it less "authentic" and more like original Paradise Pier. Which Disney is slowly adding themed buildings to in order to add some warmth, texture and "soul" to offset the cold, hard concrete, stucco and steel. Funny how ironic that is, isn't it?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Because Walter Knott bought up a real, authentic Ghost Town (Calico) and literally transported it to Buena Park. Those buildings have a history, a sense of place, a soul." So does that invalidate Frontierland, which represents a fake version of the American frontier? Again, these arguments that DCA is somehow inferior because of the theme doesn't hold water. "Funny how ironic that is, isn't it?" That's not the only ironic thing being stated in this discussion.
Originally Posted By dshyates I will start by saying that I think DCA could have been a much better park if the excecution of the California theme had been better. But I will also add that I think that WDI could have done much better than a park themed to California in California. DCA has a weak theme that was excecuted very poorly.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Example could be Tokyo DisneySea, which is located at the footsteps of the sea, in Tokyo Bay,/// I really can't give that one to you. Disney Sea challenges us to explore. We use 'oceans' and waterways in the park merely as a vehicle to help us on our journey. ///Placerville, old town Folsom, Sutter Creek,/// You're talking the old highway 49 trick right.....yep I've been there many times over(in fact I used to have a summer home outside of Placerville) but those places don't look like Main St. USA. I think the closest relatives would be found in places like MO, IA, KS or Indiana. ///Or how about the idea of Disney's America, which was to be built in America on America's birth lands(north east.)/// --northeast? I'd call it the mid- atlantic or southern region. Didn't Disney target an area right smack in the middle of Civil War territory....like Manassas, Virginia aka 'Bull Run'? Or was it Fredericksburg, VA? But you're right Virginia played a key role in the US's birth. And I'm glad Disney got drummed out of town by some Old Dominioners as that was not a good plan to set up camp there.
Originally Posted By pitapan16 ///Example could be Tokyo DisneySea, which is located at the footsteps of the sea, in Tokyo Bay,/// I really can't give that one to you. Disney Sea challenges us to explore. We use 'oceans' and waterways in the park merely as a vehicle to help us on our journey." -The Sea is so vast, that even though the DisneySea park is located next to Tokyo Bay, the Sea theme was executed very well and takes you MANY places. They could have done the same with California, to which I think now they will.
Originally Posted By pitapan16 but those places don't look like Main St. USA. I think the closest relatives would be found in places like MO, IA, KS or Indiana." - They are old Main Streets of America. Not the Main Streets of the Midwest where Walt would have known, but they are the Main Streets of the Towns. Banks, Shops, lamps, victorian buildings, interesting architexture, theater, similar to Disneyland's Main Street. Anywho, you can find a Main Street USA in Anywhere USA is basically what I'm trying to say.
Originally Posted By barboy ///They are old Main Streets of America. Not the Main Streets of the Midwest where Walt would have known, but they are the Main Streets of the Towns. Banks, Shops, lamps, victorian buildings, interesting architexture, theater, similar to Disneyland's Main Street. Anywho, you can find a Main Street USA in Anywhere USA is basically what I'm trying to say./// True and I hear ya
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>"Because Walter Knott bought up a real, authentic Ghost Town (Calico) and literally transported it to Buena Park. Those buildings have a history, a sense of place, a soul." So does that invalidate Frontierland, which represents a fake version of the American frontier? Again, these arguments that DCA is somehow inferior because of the theme doesn't hold water.<<< You didn't get the point of my post, which was that everything outside of portions of GRR at DCA was inferior because it was so badly done. Frontierland at Disneyland has a soul because it was done well. To compare it to DCA as an argument to defend the theme is ridiculous because I wasn't bagging on the theme... I was bagging on the execution of the theme. The rebirth of DCA has begun with some improvements made to Paradise Pier. There is a long, long way to go. Everything being proposed for DCA 2.0 short of Cars Land and the Little Mermaid attraction should have been a part of DCA from Day One. It's an absolute no brainer. Shame on Disney for debuting a stripped down butt-ugly theme park and inviting comparisons to stucco shopping malls and traveling carnivals. They should have at least opened up a park that was richly detailed and atmospherically immersive and lushly landscaped for THE PORTIONS THAT WERE THERE ON OPENING DAY, and then they could later augment and grow the park with new attractions like TOT and Cars Land, etc. Instead, much of the money being spent now, after the fact, is to beautify the existing parts that are woefully DEFICIENT.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Instead, much of the money being spent now, after the fact, is to beautify the existing parts that are woefully DEFICIENT.>> Yep, exactly! I mean you know a park sucks when you are completly redoing the ENTRANCE of a park lol, the first time in Disney history. Again though, DCA was a disaster, the new regeime recognize that {finally ) and doing something about it. So yeah, the park was a big fat stinking dud, but instead of being depressed about its past, we should be excited for its future now . I have no clue if this fix will bring the crowds they are hoping for, but it will at least bring back Disneys image of creating a quality theme park once again.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>we should be excited for its future now<< Seriously, if they just gave up the ghost on the whole "California" thing, it'd be fine with me. While I think it IS a worthy theme, if done right, they might as well get rid of it entirely and choose a theme they can go crazy with. Pixarland would be fine with me, the park is 70% of the way there already. Why not just go with that? Somehow, I don't think people who hate DCA's "off the shelf" attractions are going to suddenly enjoy "Mickey's Fun Wheel", or rethemed swings, or "Goofy's Flying School" over Mulholland Madness. Or maybe they will, because this is what they mean when they say they want the park to be more "Disney"?
Originally Posted By barboy To be clear about this whole Cali theme: Califonia as a Disney theme is actually quite good, not great but very workable........ if it landed far from California, like in New Jersey or Maryland. It should have been on the East coast because everyone knows California is a different country anyway----we see the the world differently than east coasters.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<>>we should be excited for its future now<< <<Seriously, if they just gave up the ghost on the whole "California" thing, it'd be fine with me. While I think it IS a worthy theme, if done right, they might as well get rid of it entirely and choose a theme they can go crazy with. Pixarland would be fine with me, the park is 70% of the way there already. Why not just go with that?>> Yeah, in agreement there! Like I *use* to say, they clearly given up on the California theme in exchange for toons and the California aspects are pretty much in the background since they have not built ONE show or ride that speaks to the culture, history or spirit of California. Its obvious they have added one addition in that vein since the park opened, so why not just bite the bullet and create a park that speaks to their long term goals instead of shoehorning in everything because they dont want to change the title? Even with all the toon stuff now added for the fix, the only thing that is REALLY Calif. with all the additions is the the redo entrance. All the actual attractions and the new land Carsland (which is SOLID proof from the film Radiator Springs is not even IN Calif.) could just be additions to a new park. I guess IF the name of the park is changed in the future and the California title is left out, then we will know they want to forget about it as well. At this point, eitherway, it wont bother me if they keep that theme or not.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>the only thing that is REALLY Calif. with all the additions is the the redo entrance<< Exactly. I understand that by any measure, the park hasn't done what Disney originally hoped. Part of it is a perception thing. If they're going to pour a bunch of money into the place, why not a do-over of the name itself, as it just causes confusion? Why torture themselves with the whole "Walt arrived in California with a dream..." entrance and then go off into a bunch of BARELY related lands and attractions? It's like they're twisting themselves in knots (or Knott's) to cling to that California theme for no reason at all. Here in the Bay Area, Marriott's Great America became Paramount's Great America and is now California's Great America. No one expects it to have a "California" theme at all. They could change the name to simply California's Disney Adventure and it would do worlds to erase the bad mojo and confusion. And then they'd be free to do whatever they wanted without the stretch to make it about California at all.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo well people still call the other parks EuroDisney and MGM, so I am sure DCA will still stick, even if they did change the name.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^True Dave, but the themes of the park never really changed. I guess what we are saying here is that in ten years, this park can look very different from how it started out, maybe to the point the word California is a misnomer. In fact, the only land that has a specific California based name is HPB. Unlike MGM or Pixar Studios, everything about that place is still wraped around movies and tv shows. DCA tried at the beginning to have that strong identity, but with each new attraction, it has been ignored. They dont even TRY to tie these attractions in with California in anyway anymore. So, IF they continue to go the route they do, it would be odd to call a place California when majority of the attractions and shows have nothing to do with it. That said, you are probably right though and people will always call it DCA (although to this day, I never heard anyone say its full name, Disney's California Adventure lol. I wish they dropped the 'Disney' at least ).
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>although to this day, I never heard anyone say its full name, Disney's California Adventure lol.<< I've heard "Californialand", "Disneyland California", "That California Place". I don't think I've heard anyone, in a casual conversation, say the full name of the place. It's a mouthful.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<They could change the name to simply California's Disney Adventure and it would do worlds to erase the bad mojo and confusion. And then they'd be free to do whatever they wanted without the stretch to make it about California at all.>> I still say just drop the C in DCA and call it Disney Adventures . Yes, I KNOW, people hate that name, too generic and 'easy', but let's call a spade a spade and that everything about DCA over the last few years have fallen into a very generic, middle-of-the-road approach what we been talking about here. Its obvious even with the additions, that wont change much. They are still going to just put in whatever they want and more than likely it will be toon based before anything. That title gives them free license like DL itself and it doesnt have to be a any real theme, but a hodge podge of ideas. The funny thing is once you take out the C in the title, you can see the park in a different light. Instead of all the lands (sorry, 'districts' ) being tied together by one central theme, now you can just see them as all seperate and doing their own thing. It would make an area like FFF be next door to HPB and FINALLY make sense for a change . I know that wont happen, just making the point when you change the title, it loosens up the parameters of what goes in and lets be honest, NONE of them probably can care less about the California theme anyway since that park was none of their creations.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Here in the Bay Area, Marriott's Great America became Paramount's Great America and is now California's Great America. /// Back in the late '70's wasn't it a 6 Flags? I say this because the roller coaster 'The Demon' had the Warner Bros. super spinning cartoon Taz Devil as one of those stationary, somewhat 2-d height checker signs. I think I was there in '79 or '80.
