Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But what I am saying is that when you have a guy who refuses to shave after being told to shave for eight hours, perhaps your company is not attracting the right people. In the case of Disney, the the problem is that what was once a decent full-time job to have, one that could at least put food on the table, is now a part-time dead end job for college students and those who are desperate for extra money. And you aren't even attracting the best college students. Turnover rates have improved in the past couple of years, but that has been due mostly to the recession. Before the recession hits turnover rates in some departments were nearing 100%. In the past you were more likely to find someone whose career history at the park could be measured in years rather than months. Working at Disneyland today is only marginally better than working a McJob. They get who they deserve.>> This and 101 Minimum-wage Dalmatians.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The company I currently work for pays substantionally better than Disney and offers great benefits and is always rated one of the best places to work in the US and we have the same problems. >> The entitlement mentality is alive and well and growing annually in the USA ... the thing is, why should we be surprised? The little people see corruption, lying and bad behavior from leaders in politics/government, corps/Big Business and celebs/actors/athletes and think that is something to emulate ... or they just think 'why about me?'
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Oh ... go (expletive deleted) yourself with a pixe dust pipe! ;-) << <<Will that make me fly like Tink?>> Yes ... yesss ... it will. >> This thread has taken a weird turn, and I'm not sure it's productive to continue. << <<I think it should at least continue until it degenerates into a name calling contest or Spirit blames the problem on fat people.>> I also blame them for global warming, Phil Holmes keeping his job and ABC cancelling Bothers and Sisters, V and Mr.Sunshine (all of which should have gotten orders for next year).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<or they just think 'why about me?'>> ... or they think 'WHAT ABOUT ME?'
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I dunno. They did accomplish a lot of social change. Without the civil rights movement, would we have a half black President today? Without the women's movement, would women have been able to become such a large part of the workforce and in important jobs? I think the social change is still being felt today in everything from the voting booth to the ability of gay couples to have some rights (depending on where they are). << I consider the hippy, anti-establishment movement (the "counterculture") to be different than the Civil Rights and Women's Movements. I'm just saying that the rebellious, anti-establishment didn't fundamentally change the country. The establishment is stronger and more corrupt than ever. The handling of the BP Oil Spill is proof of that. And now back to our regularly scheduled program... Walt was the first Imagineer AND he was a chain-smoking diva. Discuss.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The entitlement mentality is alive and well and growing annually in the USA ... the thing is, why should we be surprised?>> You're correct, Spirit. We shouldn't be surprised. I'm just personally fed up with the negative encounters I experience regularly with the under 30 crowd who are dipped in the entitlement mentality. Just today, a group of three twentysomethings returned from Bay to Breakers, absolutely smashed (even though alcohol has now been banned from the race but folks insisted on public drinking and drunkenness anyway) and confused about which residence they were supposed to go to for their after race party. They opened our closed patio gate and then our front door, which we had cracked open less than an inch for ventilation. No knock first to make sure they had the correct residence. They just opened the door and walked in. When the gal realized that she was in the wrong place, she turned around and walked out. No acknowledgement of her mistake, no apology for barging into our place without permission, she just turned around and acted like she did nothing wrong. She also didn't bother to close the door nor the gate behind her. She and her two drunken friends proceeded to walk around courtyard, dazed and confused, wondering what to do next. They left after a few minutes. Seriously, can you imagine someone in their forties or fifties acting this way? I've encountered older residents in their thirties and forties having BBQs outside, who were tossing around a ball with their kids. When the ball landed inside our patio, they didn't retrieve it but asked me to get it for them when I walked out to go get the mail. They were polite and considerate about the situation, even though I wouldn't have minded them getting the ball themselves and told them so. We watched the news tonight about all the arrests SF police made of drunken race attendees and observers. They all appeared to be in their twenties. Some were even bragging to the reporters about hiding their booze from the cops, trying to justify that the race just wouldn't be any fun without it. I can remember Bay to Breakers back in the eighties, when I first moved to SF. It was not this drunken moving block party where most everyone was drinking, peeing in people's gardens along the route, and acting like a bunch of inconsiderate jerks. Sure, there has always been a small element that brings booze to the race. But in the past several years, that element has grown to a much larger percentage of attendees who simply want to dress up in a silly costume and drink their brains out. They don't think it's any fun without alcohol. Bay to Breakers is always fun, even when you're sober. And I hate to say it, but the overwhelming majority of the drunk and disorderly B2B participants now are under 30. This definitely coincides with college campus drinking and alcoholism. It's a big problem, which is getting worse every year, especially under age drinking and binging. Once again, it's the younger generation and this stupid entitlement attitude that wasn't as prevalent as before. It is generational, whether or not you choose to accept it. To bring this back around to the original topic... I don't know what Al's problem is with Imagineering and their involvement with DLH's new pool. I do know that the old school Imagineers who are now all Senior Vice Presidents are NOT part of this snobbish attitude problem towards onstage CMs. The younger Imagineers are responsible for that crap. And yes, I believe it's generational for them, too.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I do know that the old school Imagineers who are now all Senior Vice Presidents are NOT part of this snobbish attitude problem towards onstage CMs." Is it true that some of the old timers are simply there for ceremonial reasons and have very little power?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Largely, I believe that to be the case now, more than ever. Tony apparently isn't working on any active projects right now (only blue sky stuff), and Rohde isn't doing much of anything over at DVC Hawaii Five-O, at least he hasn't been for the past year. Perhaps that has changed now. I don't know what Tom is doing at the DLR other than overseeing the final touches on DCA Phase I construction and the DLH rehab. Bob is working on Shanghai, obviously. But Bob isn't quite like Tony or Joe or Tom, who haven't left Disney since they started working in Glendale in the seventies. He was deliberately recruited back to WDI to work on DCA and Shanghai. The only old school Imagineer I know of, other than Bob, who's still actively at work in the trenches, is Eric Jacobson at WDW. Most of his contemporaries have been pretty much relegated to minor projects or clean-up duty on projects which are almost complete. They certainly don't wield the power they used to, not by a long shot.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Seriously, can you imagine someone in their forties or fifties acting this way?" I'm sure some did 25 years ago. And I doubt those kids won't be acting this way a quarter of a century from now. People in their forties and fifties ave always been more mature than people in their twenties. Nothing has changed.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Nothing has changed.>> Definitely not true. And if you bothered reading the news on a regular basis, you'd see that this kind of behavior is out of control, more so than any other point in our history. But if it makes you feel more comfortable to believe that nothing has fundamentally changed regarding "bad behavior" that the under 30 crowd is engaging in, go ahead. I'm sure the college administrators dealing with spiraling rates of binge drinking and alcoholism or law enforcement officers dealing with fatalities resulting from texting while driving would totally agree with you. Not.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Definitely not true. And if you bothered reading the news on a regular basis, you'd see that this kind of behavior is out of control, more so than any other point in our history." I'd say it's more likely that news coverage has changed than young adult behavior. Your anecdotal experience notwithstanding (I suspect confirmation bias and selective memory is also at work here). Kids today are no worse than kids were 20/30/40 years ago.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I'd say it's more likely that news coverage has changed than young adult behavior. Your anecdotal experience notwithstanding (I suspect confirmation bias and selective memory is also at work here). Kids today are no worse than kids were 20/30/40 years ago. << Remember all the juvenile delinquent fears in the 1950s. "Rebel without a Cause" and "The Wild One" and "Blackboard Jungle." Nothing new about this.
