Originally Posted By MPierce >> But I also think it's incredibly dumb and shortsighted to raise prices when you're in a depression ... if only from a PR standpoint. << Absolutely, dumb, shortsighted, and arrogant to think you can get away with these actions indefintly. All the while offering less for the money. >> I don't disagree at all, but my point is WDW loves to gloat about attendance. Clearly, despite the worst economic conditions since the resort opened in 1971, they can still equal the record numbers of last year. Obviously, profit and revenue are more important ... but Disney always pushes attendance as a 'glamour' number. Personally, I think the current business model is folly. << I like the word folly. >> It just seems to degrade the brand and (as I believe you're suggesting) make the numbers look better than they are ... you know what I say -- if you torture numbers enough, they'll say anything! Maybe it would have been better to have attendance drop 10%, but have those guests spend more? << As you have pointed out attendance seems to be the driving number when it comes to the public perception of Disney. Everyone should know that the real driving force is revenue, and the bottom line is profit. Still those attendance numbers always seem to be the gauge. >> Or maybe it would have been better to drastically cut the prices of food (instead of raising pricepoints to such an absurd degree ... as an aside and I wish I had the link but the Miami Herald just did a great dining story where the consensus among top chefs was that the days of $40 entrees is history ... and yet Disney is actively pushing that bar ... and, at the same time, giving food away with the DDP. Just dumb!) You cut the prices. Let's say instead of steaks in the upper 30s or low 40, you dropped them into the mid-20s ... I'd bet you'd sell a whole lot more. I don't see them going that way with the DDP. << With the drastic discount in rooms, tickets, and merchandise it seems like they tried to make it up with increases in food, and beverage. I really would like to know how much they have lost in that market. I'm afraid with the DDP we have seen the end of great dining, at a reasonable price point, at WDW. >> And I really hope they don't slash the Fantasyland project into just a Mermaid and some new facades deal. MK needs something drastic to eat up crowds and get people excited. Recycling the magic is so ... so 1998 ... or 2001 ... or 2004 ... or 2007 ;-) << The only way to keep the slashes from coming is to keep TDO completely out of the loop, but you already know that. Recycling the Magic seems to fit right in with Disney's PR sham of going green.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I don't mind the prices going up as long as the product is great. Sadly, Disney now offers good rather than great. And sometimes good is a struggle in some areas.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>I firmly believe that TWDC is arrogant, and now considers themselves invincable<<< >> Kinda harsh, << <<Not at all. It's merely how I perceive TWDC at this time in their history. They continue to raise prices during this economic down turn while offering discounts to keep the attendance numbers up. It is my opinion that they are forcing some loyal fans away from them with their constant price increases. I definetly believe that they have abandoned a hugh number of people merely because they think someone else will take their place, and will not be so demanding of quality.>> That's absolutely the case. They don't want guests that remember how things used to be because they can't ... no, make that won't deliver the same product today. Different business model. This has been almost 15 years in the making ... the business model changed. As I told a friend (and fellow Disney fan at lunch today), it slips down to so many things ... remember when no one left WDW in costume? Nothing like seeing folks in them in Publix or Wendy's cursing and talking about who they (blanked) last night. Remember when bulbs really were replaced before they burned out? Remember when everything (or close) opened and closed with the parks? Remember when EPCOT stayed open past 9 p.m.? Remember when ... you get the idea. How many guests were regulars in the 90s? What about the 80s? How about the 70s? The company is fundamentally different yet it uses it history and image to try and convince people that it not only adheres to the same quality levels from back then, but actually has higher ones. And now you have the truly insidious aspect of social media (just the phrase makes me cringe) where you have housewives, geeks living in Mom's basement on disability and folks who make a living off the Mouse being co-opted to present Disney's world view to the masses in cyberspace. Just a vicious cycle where you don't get the whole story and where people believe WDW 2009 is better than WDW 1989.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<With the drastic discount in rooms, tickets, and merchandise it seems like they tried to make it up with increases in food, and beverage. I really would like to know how much they have lost in that market. I'm afraid with the DDP we have seen the end of great dining, at a reasonable price point, at WDW.>> I wonder what Dieter would say. Oh yeah, he was bought out and ran off to Central America to escape the Mouse!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<And now you have the truly insidious aspect of social media (just the phrase makes me cringe) where you have housewives, geeks living in Mom's basement on disability and folks who make a living off the Mouse being co-opted to present Disney's world view to the masses in cyberspace>> Huh?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Social Media, bobbelee. That's the Internet. Everything from sites like this where (thankfully ... great job Doob!) you can actually criticize Disney ... to the new Mommy's Brigade that's actually affiliated with WDW Twittering to the world about anything and everything MAGICAL ... to people taking photos of DVC resorts ad nauseum and presenting them to the world ... to bloggers and podcasters (and I am proud to say I have never in my life listened to a podcast on anything!) Traditional media (like newspapers) is on a suicidal march to oblivion and you have folks with no journalism (often no media or any professional) background stepping into the void. And Disney loves it. 98% of what is out there paints Disney in glowing terms ... and even the critical stuff still gets the Mouse the attention it craves. It's also made some folks quite wealthy (I'm not gonna name names, but take a look at people who have made careers in the last decade or longer of spreading the pixie dust). It's kind of like being the Spirit ... only you make money off of it all! ;-)
Originally Posted By MPierce You mean I could make a buck by sucking up to the Mouse on the internet? Where's the ChapStick?
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I guess I'm being dense, I don't see anything wrong with the social media. People offering honest(hopefully) opinions and advice to others...so? Getting paid to do it, that's something else and I don't like that idea on discussion boards. Do ya think Universal has people here bad-mouthing anything Disney? Even I'm not so naive as to doubt that. People reading here just have to "consider the source" as to whether to believe everything, realize it's opinion and not necessisarily fact.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You mean I could make a buck by sucking up to the Mouse on the internet? Where's the ChapStick?>> Start your own blog ... call it 'A REAL Texan's Magical WDW Place' ... never criticize anything they do ... suck up to their PR hacks ... make sure you're on the 'invite' list for important things like Street Party debuts or DVC Tours and the rest is history. Speaking of that, you could also take your old home videos of attractions that no longer exist like 20K and sell them to fanbois at $30 a pop. Just whatever you do, don't even suggest that anything at WDW is less than 100% magical! Yeah, I don't think this would work for you.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I guess I'm being dense, I don't see anything wrong with the social media. People offering honest(hopefully) opinions and advice to others...so?>> You are assuming people are honest. That's your first mistake. And honest opinions in what context? I don't doubt that most of the folks who blog/pod/photog/etc about WDW and gush over it are lying. It's just their opinions need to be taken critically by the public -- and today I doubt they are. (I just erased seven names I had of people in the 'fan community') who have made careers and $$$ off of simply living at WDW and blogging about it because I want to be careful how I put this. But being treated 'special' by the Mouse can be intoxicating. And no one, other than someone like an Al Lutz, is presenting a truly unbiased viewpoint. Lutz admirably doesn't take anything from Disney. But you get into a very murky ethical area with social webmasters and their relationships with Disney ... wanna bet everyone who has a site winds up in Anaheim 9/10-13 for D23. It's also funny how so many folks have had so much difficulty getting into D23 events that had to be signed up for, yet it seems like every website gets into all of them. That doesn't just happen. <<Getting paid to do it, that's something else and I don't like that idea on discussion boards.>> Well, when you make money off of a website for Disney fans, you certainly have an interest in presenting the company in the best light possible. That's why I've always had a high degree of respect for the crew here. Despite some connections, you can talk about Disney realistically and not only the pixie dust. <<Do ya think Universal has people here bad-mouthing anything Disney? Even I'm not so naive as to doubt that.>> Actually, I do. Uni doesn't care. They do their own thing. <<People reading here just have to "consider the source" as to whether to believe everything, realize it's opinion and not necessisarily fact.>> People get dumber by the day ...
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<It's also funny how so many folks have had so much difficulty getting into D23 events that had to be signed up for, yet it seems like every website gets into all of them. That doesn't just happen.>> Not condoning it, but isn't that just standard business proceedure? Leemac has said more than a few things that shocked me, considering his position. Same with -em, she doesn't seem to pull any punches, or gloss anything over.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Just whatever you do, don't even suggest that anything at WDW is less than 100% magical! Yeah, I don't think this would work for you. I don't know, it possibly could. Do you think I could recall those dozen or so e-mails I sent out to Disney management? >> People get dumber by the day ... << I prefer to think of myself as a person less influenced by a rational thought process.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Leemac has said more than a few things that shocked me, considering his position. Same with -em, she doesn't seem to pull any punches, or gloss anything over. << Definetly, and it's quite refreshing, because you know they are speaking from the heart, and both love Disney.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Not condoning it, but isn't that just standard business proceedure?>> When I've heard personal horror tales of people trying to sign up for D23, yet every webmaster who wanted in, got in, I find that troubling. If Disney wants to set places aside that is one thing, but then they should be upfront about it. Imagine if no one that blogs/photogs/pods about the Mouse made it into one of the events? But that never happened and never will. <<Leemac has said more than a few things that shocked me, considering his position. Same with -em, she doesn't seem to pull any punches, or gloss anything over.>> Yeah. And why do you think I have so much respect for the two of them. Hell, I poke Lee sometimes just so he can add his incredible wealth of knowledge to subjects (something i'm sure he hasn't figured out by now! ;-) )
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> People get dumber by the day ... << <<I prefer to think of myself as a person less influenced by a rational thought process.>> Do you how much I wish you lived close by so we could go drinking? Almost enough to make me pick up the tab!
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >Now, you have an anniversary date and no matter when you first use it, the pass is backdated. I just lost three months on my AP because of it, but that's typical.< When did this start? The last time I bought my AP through the mail, I was sent a voucher and my AP clock started when I picked it up on the date I arrived. I may be mistaken, but I think my last AP was only two years ago. I skipped last year and plan to buy one this year so it coincides with my next two trips. If the clock starts on date of payment, then I'll just wait to buy it until I come down in November.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Do you how much I wish you lived close by so we could go drinking? Almost enough to make me pick up the tab! << We could hang outside the bar, and roll the drunks coming out. That way we would both be getting free drinks.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys Post # 36 obviously belongs on the otther thread. I was wondering where it went.
Originally Posted By -em >>Definetly, and it's quite refreshing, because you know they are speaking from the heart, and both love Disney.<< Aww thanks ya'll. Its a fine line I try to walk but at the end of the day my opinion is my opinion and I'll share it with whoever wants to listen... -em
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^So long as you let me play with my glow toy, I'll always listen to you! Reminds me I need to see what photos you've put up this week!
