Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Fridays in Hong Kong are dangerous.>> Yes, they are <<I'm only back to get changed and head out again! Back to Shanghai on Sunday. )>> Ah, we keep missing each other across Asia. So ... any word on when we'll get the 'official announcement' of the park/resort (complete with press release touting all the stuff that will get cut after the ink dries)? Folks in Beijing have said construction will start right after the new year, so I'd expect Disney will have to say something soon?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>So ... any word on when we'll get the 'official announcement' of the park/resort (complete with press release touting all the stuff that will get cut after the ink dries)? Folks in Beijing have said construction will start right after the new year, so I'd expect Disney will have to say something soon?<<< That's not what Iger said last night in the Earning Report. Said that there was "one more major check point" to be had with the Asian Govt before things can start being done. That includes construction and art. Also said that SDL will take 5 years to build.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 leemac, thanks very much for taking the time to offer such intelligent explanations of what you know about the workings of TWDC. I find it very interesting and enlightening! As for your view of how to fix things, I am in total agreement. Shuttering a park a day would be absolutely fine as a solution. And yes, ditch MYW! >>Disney has totally screwed over locals with everything from extorting Christmas to charging for food and wine fest samples to making on-site dining a near impossibility due to the DDP and its absurd price points (you shouldn't pay more to dine at the Brown Derby, a freaking theme park restaurant, then a fine dining experience at a Ritz Carlton in Asia ... yet that is the reality).<< Spirit, wouldn't this all be fixed and the necessity of it go away if we were going back to a premium product? I guess I would think a more expensive pass would be fine for locals if all of these things came back in line, no?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 They have to get guests off the crack monkey that is discounting - discounted rack rates and free dining have to cease or be dialed back significantly. However that will be a very risky strategy - I suspect attendance would collapse if that was to happen. So then you have your target RevPAR and guest spend but don't have the revenue or attendance numbers you've had previously. It is a vicious circle - they need to ditch the discounting and keep WDP&R revenue up. I don't think they will be able to do it. We have seen nearly a full decade of mass discounting now - folks come to expect it. If WDW Co. doesn't offer it then it will drive folks off--property or not to come at all. ------------------- agree- the US auto industry saw what happens when everyone expected either huge discounts / rebates or very cheap lease payments -- both ways ended up screwed Ford/GM/Chrysler and they are still paying for it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 So...why not try the IoA method and build us SOMETHING huge and nice? ---------- and with profits down, and the real need to end discounting and free meal plans which likely will lower attendance even more-- where does that $500M come from ? Serious question - And already have had the discussion that while Potter has worked ( at least short term)- what other franchise out there would have that effect ? The answer is none - with an outside chance if the huge expansion was all Star Wars - and if it was- is that how we want to head with Disney parks ? Again serious question
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<The real issue is DVC - points prices are increasing but the take-up is shrinking. WDW Co. will need to spend a lot more on marketing off-property (like the expensive Gateway showrooms in key markets like Chicago and NJ) to get folks to buy in.>> But hey! Let's build more! ------------- while profit may be shrinking - it is still profitable is it not ? With WDW losing money on parks alone what financial solution do you have to offer up -
Originally Posted By vbdad55 When folks can pay less than $30 per day to play inside the parks you have diminishing returns.>> ----------------- then how do we explain DL success since such a large % of their daily customers are passholders and pay much much less than $30/day ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ you have to get people to spend while they're there- free dining is an albatross in many ways - with the economy in a ditch people are spending less..... it's not a pretty picture
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Potter at WDW would have been marketing magic. ------------------- I can't argue with that - however do we know who scuttled that opportunity - Rowling or Disney ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Focus on getting the middle classes back to WDW rather than pitching at the bottom. ------------------ the problem is the middle class- or those of us who still think we are are mired in a world around us with no raises, increased health care costs, increased costs of living, propoerty tax increases to pay for schools even though houses devaluating -- adn most of the tax cuts favor the two ends of the spectrum, not the middle class. Make less than $45K per year and pay no federal taxes if you are a family of 4. Yet at the other end people making 100K per year more than others are paying 3% more in tax rates and likely have more deducations and pay less really. The middle class is evaporating before your eyes- and it is affecting WDW, and museums and zoos and all that middle class entertaiment heavily. Can't blame all WDW woes on the economy I agree with- but the way the economy is being 'fixed' by Washington ( and this is not a Dem or GOP thing ) - continues to screw over the middle class.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<The answer is none - with an outside chance if the huge expansion was all Star Wars - and if it was- is that how we want to head with Disney parks ?>> I'd be fine with it. As long as it stayed true to the source material.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<while profit may be shrinking - it is still profitable is it not ? With WDW losing money on parks alone what financial solution do you have to offer up ->> if profit is shrinking and there are still a heck of a lot of units left to sell, why build more? Doesn't make sense. As for a financial solution, why not try getting rid of MYW? Do a new ticket plan and things of that nature.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Maybe a tad, but not much more ... the USA is moving toward a country where you have abject poverty, working poor, upper middle class and uber wealthy. -------------- I didn't read this before I posted Spirit - but you are dead on my friend-- the so called middle class will be no more shortly.... and that upper middle class is going to survive ONLY if the jobs that fuel the lifestyle continue... My generation will be the first to be retiring without traditional pensions ( unless you are union or government worker) - a new class will join the working poor- the STILL WORKING and retired poor
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Disney blamed the shrunken quarterly profit on rising labor costs and pension obligations at Disney World and Disneyland" ??? CMs get pensions? I find that hard to believe. >>Who comes up with these numbers anyway. All I have been reading all year is how crowded the parks are. That there doesn't seem to be a slow time anymore. My own experience at the end of September was that I had never seen it that crowded.<< I guess all those free meal plans add up. Of course it's entirely possible that had they not had the promotions that attendance would have fallen.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 A tad too much hyperbole - you may believe that the American middle class is shrinking but it is still there. And it is still a large consumer of Disney-branded products across all business units. They are still the engine for TWDC ------------------ I am going to disagree with you Lee -- I think they are still the target audience- and the most loyal audience- but disposable income for true middle class is gone.. eroded by increased costs to raise their kids, insure them, pay the mortgage and bills etc... it's the same reason all the stores that used to handle 'collectibles' are virtually gone...their clients no longer exist.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Disney blamed the shrunken quarterly profit on rising labor costs and pension obligations at Disney World and Disneyland>> Rising labor costs!? They laid off a ton of people.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<The answer is none - with an outside chance if the huge expansion was all Star Wars - and if it was- is that how we want to head with Disney parks ?>> I'd be fine with it. As long as it stayed true to the source material. ---------------- OK , we're both SW fans, do you think it would have a chance to succeed ? Of course the odds of George doing it in our lifetime would be small also, but's let's assume hje went along with it. Is it current enough, and strong enough to should a $300M-$500M expansion and pay off ? Maybe this should be it's own thread
Originally Posted By vbdad55 if profit is shrinking and there are still a heck of a lot of units left to sell, why build more? Doesn't make sense -------------------- I would agree with slowing up until more inventory clears...however I do understand the dessire to ' go to the well' also for cash infusion. Can they overbuild- that answer is yes, but I hope they don't
Originally Posted By fkurucz "My point to all of this, is why doesn't Disney shift their entire business model this way?" Because they think they can maximize their profits by being all things to all people. They sell cheapo APs in SoCal that are blocked out over 1/3 of the year and sell "two-fers" to attract the cheapsket crowd and bring them in when the parks would otherwise be empty, hoping to at least sell them a hot dog and coke everytime they come. Then they block out the unwashed and cater to the full price ticket crowds dury the the traditional busy season and now they are expanding that to special events that used to be included. This sort of strategy is found in just about any biz school text book. Its why General Motors used to have a wide portfolio of brands, to cater to different demographics and pocket books. Sears used to have products in its catalog labelled "good", "better" and "best". So they've taken the DL experience and carved it up into "good", "better" and "best" experiences. In a way I think its too bad the did that. We used to love going in the Fall. Mild weather and light crowds more than made up for shorter hours and some rides being closed. Now Fall is more crowded than summer, thanks to the cheap SoCal APs.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<OK , we're both SW fans, do you think it would have a chance to succeed ? Of course the odds of George doing it in our lifetime would be small also, but's let's assume hje went along with it. Is it current enough, and strong enough to should a $300M-$500M expansion and pay off ? Maybe this should be it's own thread>> There's no doubt in my mind.Just look at the people who show up for Star Wars Weekends alone. And that's just to have the opportunity to take your picture with some of the characters. If Disney decided to man up and turn the area around Star Tours, cannibalize the Indy Stunt show, and expand back, into a Star Wars land(and did it right like Uni did with Potter), they would basically have a press to print money on, IMO.
