Originally Posted By gmaletic Spirit of 74 said: >>>Because WDW used to be an oasis of scrub and pine forest and is now starting to look just like areas off-property Okay, I buy that. I think Disney hasn't been particularly wise in how they've used the Florida property. Very little achieves any other goal than to increase revenue, plain and simple. To be clear on my position, I think the Four Seasons is probably one of the better uses of land on-property...but that's only speaking relatively. --Greg
Originally Posted By RandySavage I agree with Spirit. It's heartbreaking to see how badly WDW and Orlando have been overdeveloped since I used to visit as a kid. You can see from Live Maps or Google Earth how the green spaces that once gave WDW that wonderful feeling of isolation have given way to the suburban sprawl that continues to close in from all sides. Even worse than the Four Seasons (which will at least be a nice building and grounds) is Meg Crofton's godawful "Flamingo Crossing" development north of DAK, which will only invite further hideous overdevelopment on the western side of the property. It's gut-wrenching... like a watching a greedy developer build a Walmart on top of a beloved grandparents' farm where you spent your childhood summers.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^I couldn't have said it better, Randy. And it is one of the truly awful legacies of Eisner's tenure ... the desire to develop every square inche of property. As someone who grew up as a kid with the WDW of the mid-70s, 80s and into the 90s, it is truly shocking how crowded and unmagical the resort feels versus how it once did. I sometimes really do feel like I'm just in a giant timeshare, hotel and retail development with a few theme parks thrown in as afterthoughts. I've heard that Disney is once again reviewing its transportation problems for the future, but you can bet monorail expansion and/or rail won't be what happens ... we'll just get more busses, although they'll make sure these are more energy efficient so they can blather on about how 'green' a company they are. Funny ... WDW used to just be a place surrounded by green that made a lot of green. Oh well, 2 a.m. rants aren't always the most coherent, but I can't sleep (too much sun today) and I'm right anyway.
Originally Posted By gmaletic No doubt Eisner started this trend, but if you don't assign Iger a fair share of the blame, I think you're in denial. Four seasons, the new shopping complex, the DVC units at the Contemporary... Those are all on Iger's watch.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^I do. Bob is in charge. And while he's very good in the TV and movie business, he is just allowing Jay Rasulo to continue what Eisner and Pressler were doing before. So, yeah, I am in no way giving Bob a pass.
Originally Posted By SuperDry But, Iger in large part inherited the institutional investors in TWDC that had perhaps unrealistic goals as to how the company could Increase Shareholder Value going forward.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Regarding Tomorrowland in 1971 ... I got a huge kick out of a tv show recently seen on Youtube .. showing a musical revue at the entrance. The dancers were "all jazzed up" with the exciting journeys that lurked behind them .... Well .. behind them was a 15 foot tall construction wall ... and behind that dirt! What was to become Circle-Vision and Flight to the Moon were basically empty! LOL ...... and your entrance to what little there was in Tomorrowland .. was the entrance to the north .. that took you to the right side of Fantasyland. The extent of Tomorrowland was the Coca Cola Tomorrowland Terrace (think they called it "terrace") ... and you had the Skyway .. and Grand Prix Raceway.
Originally Posted By Hista98 WDW Railroad Main Street Vehicles Walt Disney Story Main Street Cinema Plaza Swan Boats Swiss Family Treehouse Jungle Cruise Tropical Seranade (Tiki Room) Country Bear Jamboree Tom Sawyer Island Hall of Presidents Liberty Square Riverboats (yes, there were two) Mike Fink Keelboats Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes Haunted Mansion It's a Small World Mickey Mouse Revue Peter Pan's Flight (though I read it opened a few days later than Oct 1) Snow White's Scary Adventures Cinderella's Golden Carousel Dumbo Mad Tea Party (minus roof!) Mr. Toad's Wild Ride 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Skyway Tomorrowland Speedway 20,000 didn't open til two weeks later tsi was a few years later as was swan boats and the walt disney story. The riverboats opened up the day after opening, peter pan opened on the 3rd.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But, Iger in large part inherited the institutional investors in TWDC that had perhaps unrealistic goals as to how the company could Increase Shareholder Value going forward.>> That's absolutely what has happened. Eisner created a monster with his 20% growth BS. It was fine when the company was tiny, but a sleeping giant ... but after a dozen years of massive growth it wasn't realistic. And I wonder if Bob or any major CEO has the guts to stand up to institutional investors and the Wall Street talking heads and say 'We're in this for the long haul ... I'm not worried about our stock price dropping 50 cents tomorrow. I'm worried about how strong a company we'll be in a decade.'
Originally Posted By X-san If he said that, I'd guess it'll drop a lot more than 50 cents. Especially with all the recession chatter, investors are extremely skittish and CEO's have to watch what they say or suffer the consequences (which sucks, because as an investor what *I* want is an honest company...which is why Apple is cool I think, they tell it like it is and yes, their stock price frequently plummets short term but over the long haul its' done gangbusters).
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <And it is one of the truly awful legacies of Eisner's tenure ... the desire to develop every square inche of property> Walt would have developed more. Big Thunder Mountain still feels brand new to me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Walt would have developed more.>> No way of knowing that at all. But what is probably safe to assume is that Walt wouldn't have turned WDW into The Timeshare Kingdom of the World, while neglecting basic infrastructure like transport resulting in traffic as bad as off-property and pollution-spewing buses taking people from place to place in the 21st century. <<Big Thunder Mountain still feels brand new to me.>> Uhm ... ah ... that's nice. One of the MK bright spots, although since I've been riding it since my childhood it's hard to view it as new.
Originally Posted By oc_dean That opened in '80. Coming on 30 years ago. I'm sad .. though .. how the "mk" park has been left so behind. So they want to put attention on the other parks huh? There's also a thing called neglect and stagnation. And that's what I'm seeing happening with the 'mk' park.
