Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, but do you think the balance is there? I don't think something like the HM would be made today.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt << I don't think something like the HM would be made today.>> TSMM & EE are both E-ticket but, I've got video games at home & now the Yeti has blown a gasket!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Exactly.... I at least give EE props for trying, but yep, when we went on it a couple of months after opening, the only working effects were the projected ones.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think Mission: Space was a good stab at an E-ticket. Test Track too. I've been with more people who have enjoyed Buzz Lighyear than not and I've heard good things about Toy Story in the Studios...though not experienced it myself. I thought Fantasmic was fantastic and would love to see the auto stunt show at the Studios. We like the redo with Mermaid at the Living Seas and the Turtle Talk/Crush experience is pretty unique. I'd say the Stich makeover fell short and I was never happy with the various attempts to redo the Imagination ride. It isn't possible to please everyone and I suppose that is the curse for Disney.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt <<I'd say the Stich makeover fell short >> a little more than short but, better than Mission to Mars & DD's would have been terrified of Alien Encounter! <<It isn't possible to please everyone and I suppose that is the curse for Disney.>> ..AMEN
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Skip - I take your point that some of those are great attractions (mainly the non toon ones), but the non toon ones were in planning stages or opened 10 years ago. I am talking about the stuff that has opened in the last 4 or so years or are on the drawing boards now.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I would counter that 5-10 years ago the survey's coming out of Disney guests were suggesting not enough interaction with the Disney characters that were growing in popularity on the Disney Channel and elsewhere. So, you are now seeing more meet and greets, additional parades, the Winnie the Pooh ride, Mickey's Philharmagic, focus on the Princesses (and more recently the fairies), the focus on the Pixar characters (made more possible by the acquisition) like TSMM, Mermaid at Living Seas, etc. They have taken this "opportunity" and "Millionaired" it. *"Millionaired" is my coined term (not unlike "milked it dry" for when anyone takes a successful venture and overplays it to the point of destruction.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo FWIW, I do not have an issue with meet and greets or character meals, as long as they do not take away from highly immersive themed experiences. But when all the attractions and shows are about characters, well just say it does not entice me to get on a plane and drop $5000 on a vacation.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, they couldn't build a single attraction, or even a couple of attractions, that would entice me to jump on a plane and drop $5000 on a vacation. I consider the entire experience. (For instance, last time I stayed in a resort it was Coronado Springs. The interiors were dated but I understand they are just completing a complete refurbishment of the rooms...which I will take into account.) While I might not be thrilled with the Mermaid addition to Living Seas...it did make the pavilion more palatable to my younger kids which makes my experience with the actual aquarium more enjoyable. Making Epcot a little more kid friendly may persuade me to make another visit there while the kids are still young enough to not be able to appreciate what Epcot is all about. Mansion is a great ride, to be sure, but I'm not sure if you ask a kid today under the age of 16 how they would respond to this: You have the choice of two rides, Mansion or Buzz Lightyear for your only ride in the park today. Which do you want to do? I suspect more of them would answer Buzz over Mansion. Frankly, I probably get more kicks and giggles out of Buzz than Mansion even though I do like Mansion. But, I think I like the nostalgia of Mansion more than I like Mansion.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>they couldn't build a single attraction, or even a couple of attractions, that would entice me to jump on a plane and drop $5000 on a vacation.<<< Well EE and Soarin' did for us.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But we could have gone to DL instead for Soarin' and have a better overall time, so that is what we did last year.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Dave...would you consider yourself the "average Disney guest"? I suspect not considering your participation on this board. And, I'm not saying that is a bad thing. I admire your passion and I believe you point out what you perceive as shortcomings because of your love of the parks/company. But, I'm not sure Disney should be trying to please the most Disneyfied of us. I think Disney must keep happy the majority of it's visitors (and hopefully some of those things will please us ardent followers as well). When I was riding Snow White's Scary Adventure with my kids a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, "man...this attraction is past it's prime." I think it is ripe for change but boy, it could end up being like Mad Hatter all over again. I'm not sure Disney should make the decision NOT to pull out an attraction that probably isn't regarded one way or the other by the masses because of the relatively few (but loud and proud) Disney fanatics. In the same vein I'm not sure it is their responsibilty to build new attractions for "us". Frankly, if they spent $100 million on Haunted Mansion today I might think to myself, "hey..with all the capabilities out there today...this is the best they could do?" And again, I love Mansion so I'm certainly not trying to put it down.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I admit I am far from the average joe when it comes to Disney. But I just feel like Disney is aiming for the lowest common denominator these days. Buzz, Millionaire, American Idol et al I doubt will have the same lasting appeal. They feel more 6 flags crossed with Chuckie Cheese than Disney to me. What was it that made Kruschev have an international incident when he was not allowed to go to DL? I doubt it was a bunch of toons. I get really grumpy, not just because of my personal tastes. It is deeper than that. In my career, I run teams of social scientists either doing research or modelling and transforming the future of care, government and public services. And what I see as working and not working is being replicated and not working in DIsney right now. I look at my brothers, who are in their teens. They feel they have outgrown DLP in the main and have no interest. While this may not be rare, in my family, the people my age and older never went through that feeling until the recent past. I feel that instead of offering a quality brand and experience, we are now seeing flash in the fan populism that does not last. I mean who here wants flares and lava lamps? But classic designs never die, that is why they are called classics. Joe Six Pack probably does not recognise this at first, but what often keeps them coming back is the classic approach. If it keeps cheapening and relies on toons, then the audience is only captured while the kids are around. And that worries me. But we are wierd. My 5 year old's fav attractions in all of WDW were Spoaceship Earth, Listen to the Land and Lights Motors Action. Like father, like son.
Originally Posted By MPierce I sure would like to throw my opinion out there, and I will. Just as soon as I can figure out what this thread is about. I wonder if my lovely wife triple dosed my medications again or did I just start drinking early today.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I win a billion dollar bet with myself ... I predicted that Goof would be the first dude to post here overnight and I was right. Too bad, I can't pay off the bet ... Oh well ... <<Analyst upgrades and downgrades are meaningless.>> Uhm, sorry but I beg differ with you. When a bigtime analyst tells the Street that a company isn't doing well, it tends to hurt the stock and the company. Or do you think Bob Iger and the board were nonplussed by Richie's new rating? For anyone who believes these downgrades are meaningless, take a look at the futures index and take a look at TWDC AFTER Pali's report. <<Why didn't this guy have a sell rating on the shares all throughout the past year? Now that they've lost half their value, he decides it's time to sell? Not the kind of guy I want making my investment decisions.>> Actually, to be fair, Greefield put a strong warning out on the stock many months ago. Now ... as to whether he should have had a 'sell' on it sooner, that's open to debate. But many things factor into why an analyst says or advises anything. I won't speak for him. But I wouldn't him handling my investments either! ~Coming Soon to pay-per-view: John Stewart v. CNBC~
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Finally justice in this world I hope WDW gets pounded for all the stupid deciisons they have made with the resort over the past 10 years.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What stocks AREN'T falling right now?>> Well ... the talking heads on CNBC would have you believe that stock in The Dollar Store chain (yeah, you read that right), McDonald's and (please excuse me while I go puke) WalMart are hot and better than say Disney, GE and Morgan Chase. <<Why should Disney be immune to that?>> I agree. They should be exposed ... the question is to what degree. <<If people are cutting spending of their "entertainment" dollars it will have an effect on travel, movie tickets, retail, etc.>> Yep. That's why they call it a depression. But Disney, through its own machinations, has placed itself into a box ... a vicious cycle of discounting (well before 2008-09) and cutbacks that have left it on a precarious ledge where it didn't have to be. <<I know one thing. I was at WDW a few weeks ago and there was no sign of a recession at the Magic Kingdom. On the contrary, I was disappointed it was so crowded.>> I was too. And I saw the crowds. If attendance for 2/09 vs. 2/08 is off any, it is a very small amount (2-3% would be my guesstimate for peak weeks). But did you notice that few people were buying much ... did you notice sales in the parks? Did you see how the entire WoD store was on sale almost like a Circuit City with bold discount signs everywhere? The people were there ... no doubt about it. But the per capita guest spend numbers are going to scare anyone at TDO or in Burbank. And let's again not forget the fact the resorts are having healthy load levels due to the 'success' of the Buy 4, Get 3 free deal. So, a premium product has is now discounted for all, all the time ... while certain items (like food, stroller rentals, etc ...) are being pushed to the gouge point. It all comes down to what one high-ranking consultant refers to as RPC ... Revenue Per Click ... so while those turnstiles are moving pretty much at last year's pace ... they don't begin to tell the financial tale of WDW's woes. ~WDW: Now at 40% off year round!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Ah yes, but the quality of the DIsney product is sliding. What was worisome is it was sliding in the good times. Now....well let's just say that now is not the best time, and for Disney, I fear there may not be a great big beautiful tomorrow.>> That is my concern, plain and simple. WDW quality certainly ebbs and flows in small examples (like 'Ohana starting out great, turning mediocre at best and now being very good again) ... but largely the overall resort quality experience has been trending downward for years ... even when things were supposedly doing great in our economy. Now ... how much muscle do you cut when the fat is long gone? Do you start hitting the veins and vital organs? <<I don't see the "slide" and maybe I'm just blind to it.>> Some people are ... also you can have a vastly inconsistent product on an hourly basis based upon so many factors now since there has been so much cutting over the years. <<I didn't notice any offensive cleanliness issues.>> Neither did I ... which was very nice ... and even a bit refreshing. <<I tried something new (which I rarely do since I've been so many times now) and thought the Monster's Laugh Floor attraction was interesting, and a good use of the limited space.>> On that, well ... we just disagree ... <<Loved the fireworks show...and thought the early parade was entertaining enough. (Kids loved it...and that is how I judge the parades.)>> Wishes was as wonderful as ever ... but Illuminations has never looked worse to me ... and I have likely seen it hundreds of times now. Between no inferno barge, loads of missing pyro, cheaper pyro that resulted in off-timing ... well, again it was just bad both times I viewed it. <<I have liked the plusses to some of my favorite attractions (new overhaul of the Jungle Cruise boats, Depp in Pirates, new touches to Mansion, etc.) Again, maybe I'm less critical now but I don't think so. I'm still pretty critical of my other former employers/parks (such as Cedar Point) so I don't think it is my eye.>> I agree about the attractions you mentioned ... JC and PoC, in particular, looked better than I have seen them in years ... and Mansion has been spectacular since its redo. But I look at whole big picture again ... and I don't like much of what I see. ~WDW: Now Discounting the Magic!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<ORDDU: Dear Spirit of 74, duckling! My sisters and I have come out of our safe hiding place just long enough to offer you some encouraging support. You have just as much of a right to post what you've read about as anyone else. If others don't appreciate it, they don't have to read or respond. But we hope you keep on giving us your much appreciated up dates all the same. >> Thanks! It's nice to see you broads ... I mean ... dames ... I mean ... witches back. Hope all is well in your pond. ~Got Broomsticks?~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Agreed, but do you think the balance is there? I don't think something like the HM would be made today.>> Balance? Disney doesn't know the meaning of the word. As to the Mansion ... I just want to see it get done in HK ... and that Shanghai project (that no one has pushed Iger on). Would Mansion be built at WDW today as a new attraction? Very, very, very doubtful. The closest Disney has come in the past decade to that type of attraction in FLA would be DAK's amazing KS. ~Big Red is DEAD! ... CMs needed food!~
