WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> I thought I knew way too much about the fan community (in all its many insane aspects) but didn't have a clue about these tours. For all the time I've been at WDW, you'd have thought I'd have seen them ... I am also amazed to a lesser degree, because I do believe many fans are nuts, that people will actually pay them for their 'services'. <<

Do you think they are carrying a flag around chanting like Brazilian tour groups? If you didn't know about the tours, you live a very sheltered life. I bet better than half the folks on LP have heard of this. Maybe it's because you don't read a lot of other Disney forums. Ask TDLFAN how many he's heard about.

>> True enough. But Disney knows who is doing what as a business and advertising and could shut them down as soon as they entered a park. I can take some fanboi friends around the MK and point things out, but I am going to draw Security's attention if I have official looking lanyards and clipboards and a computer strapped to my waist and an entourage ... that's what some of these folks are doing <<

So why aren't they drawing security's attention?

>> And if someone comes up say Lou Mongello while he's giving a tour, do you think he sends them to City Hall to sign up for an official one? Or does he whip out business cards and tell the people to check ourt his site and sign up? <<

You have former CM cashing in on Disney tips, and secrets. You have web sites devoted to touring Disney. I don't know how much money they are making, but I do know there are a lot of them.

I'm just curious as to what got this bur under your saddle? A little Texas euphemism for you.

 

Originally Posted By ReelJustice

Mongello dislaimer: wdwradio.com/disclosure/

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<There are two types of tours going on here. The fanboi ones--like Mongello's--I think are fairly rare. Do we know for certain he even sold one at $400 a pop? I think it may just be a certain amount of ego-stroking: "Oh yeah, I get paid to give tours. See? it says it on my website.">>

I have no idea how many he sells. I didn't know he existed until someone mentioned him to me in a negative way maybe three years ago in passing ... I didn't know about these tours until I posted about them ... maybe 10 days ago.

And I can tell ego is a big part of the guy, but that doesn't mean he isn't selling a (blank) load of tours. He does show pictures where he is giving them and he has glowing reviews ... sure, they could all be made up or just his friends ... but they do exist.

Even if he has sold only one, that would be one too many.

Unless, of course, Disney is going to come out with a statement saying anyone can give tours of its parks and properties without any payment to the company. ... You think that's gonna happen?

One also has to wonder just what makes this guy so important that he is invited to any/every event/annoucement/party that Disney throws out of O-Town. Clearly, they don't do likewise to many sites that are more reputable and have been around a lot longer than he has.

<<However, "Tour Guide Mike" and those who copy him are NOT directed at fanbois. They're going after the people with maybe a couple million in the bank but who aren't famous enough to get a private tour, and who have no idea that if you wanted to eat at a real restaurant in the park you needed to make an ADR 60 days ago or that the line for the princesses goes from zero to 2 hours between 10:00 and 10:15. >>

I believe anyone who wants to pay Disney for a VIP Tour can get one. I would guess the only ones who are automatically asked would be visiting heads of state and celebrities (especially anyone working for Disney) ... also would guess many of those in the groups I mentioned don't even pay for them.

<<I know one of TGM's main source of customers is the NFL (has a deal with the Player's Association). Sure Brady or Brees gets the star treatment, but what about a journeyman running back or lineman? Ditto the VP of a nondescript company here for a convention with his kids. Not guys who are going to hit the DIS for tips on how to tour. Not excusing the theft, but in a way Disney invited this with FastPass, DDP, etc. They force guests to look for ways around these, be it the "commando" fanbois or those willing to drop the cash on a private tour.>>

Well, I am not a big fan of FP and the DDP has destroyed dining at WDW (a major Disney 'celeb' who was giving seminars at D23 last weekend told a friend the same thing) ... but I don't think those things are the cause of these tours.

I think pimping the product to social media whores (who do likewise to an audience that Disney already owns) is the cause.

I think people saw an opening (some might call it a gray area, but I don't see that at all) and drove a battering ram through it.

I'm also guessing there very well could be some Guest Relations folks who are involved and are either handing out FPs and/or meals etc and are getting some sort of payback (be in financial or other) from doing things they shouldn't be.

<<Also let me stress, TGM's tour company and TGM's web board serve two very different audiences. The web board is fanboi central, makes the MAGICal board look sane. But very few of his KoolAde drinkers there are actually putting down the money for a private tour.>>

Haven't checked out the boards, but that is scary ... every Disney site I find seems to make me cringe more than the last.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>> Stealing is pretty straight forward these days. I've learned from watching our government and Wall Street. <<

<<We continue to reelect the same corrupt people to office. So who's fault is it.>>

I'd suggest we often elect new corrupt people ... I'd also suggest when 98% of your choices are corrupt that you have some problems.

I am shocked that we think the status quo is fine, but I've felt that way for many years and it's pretty obvious that we are apathetic until things affect us (or our loved ones) and it's usually too late then.


>> If I walk into a Walmart (which, of course, I'd rather take 100 lashes) and walk out with a TV and don't pay, but Walmart security fails to stop me, it still IS stealing. <<

<<You are so very sly. If the folks at WalMart are aware that you take the TV, and openly allow you to take the TV, then how can it be stealing?

Steal
1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
2. To present or use (someone else's words or ideas) as one's own.
3. To get or take secretly or artfully:>>

I'm not being sly. You're just playing devil's advocate.

Walmart doesn't give away TVs (even if the trailer crowd on Black Friday would disagree). They charge you for them. They are a business.

If I walk in and am allowed to walk out with one because I befriended people who work there and allow me to steal or because I give them a cut of the profits on the stolen goods, it doesn't change the fact that what I did is wrong and against the rules.

>> When people try and take whatever they can grab, whether they get away with it or not doesn't change a thing. <<

<<It changes everything if they are being allowed to do it. Isn't that what we are talking about here?>>

Well, yes. But the point is who is allowing what, who is getting what, and why are some people being allowed to do things that people in general can't.

If Disney feels Lou and these others are so crucial to its bottom line (and, trust me on this one, they don't) that they want to pay them off (one way or another ... a meal at Jiko, a gift card at check in that can then be transferred back to a Visa at check out, a vastly discounted room at the BW etc), then Disney should just have a press release put out.

Or perhaps Thomas Smith, or someone with some actual power at TDO, could spell out Disney's relationship with these folks on The Disney Parks Blog.

>> How many people would steal from children or the disabled or charities if they felt they could get away with it? <<

<<A lot of them do steal from the charities, and get away with it legally. We both know that though don't we.>>

Unfortunately, that is true enough ...

<<Before anyone contributes to a charity they should check out that organizations 501C3. It's always wise to know how your charitable money is being spent. Also request a list of salaried exectutives, and employees. Along with a list of affiliated charities. As well as charities they support.>>

Agreed.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>> Um ... ah ... Mrs. Pierce said you stuff your pants to impress the cute young gal down the block ... you know, the one with the restraining order against you? <<

<<She made all those accusations up. I've never dressed up like Klaus Nomi, and sang outside her window.>>

I had to Google him ...

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>> I thought I knew way too much about the fan community (in all its many insane aspects) but didn't have a clue about these tours. For all the time I've been at WDW, you'd have thought I'd have seen them ... I am also amazed to a lesser degree, because I do believe many fans are nuts, that people will actually pay them for their 'services'. <<

<<Do you think they are carrying a flag around chanting like Brazilian tour groups? If you didn't know about the tours, you live a very sheltered life. I bet better than half the folks on LP have heard of this. Maybe it's because you don't read a lot of other Disney forums. Ask TDLFAN how many he's heard about.>>

Have you seen them?

And, yes, I'll be sure to ask TDLFAN about them!

>> True enough. But Disney knows who is doing what as a business and advertising and could shut them down as soon as they entered a park. I can take some fanboi friends around the MK and point things out, but I am going to draw Security's attention if I have official looking lanyards and clipboards and a computer strapped to my waist and an entourage ... that's what some of these folks are doing <<

<<So why aren't they drawing security's attention?>>

I have no idea. Maybe you could find out.

>> And if someone comes up say Lou Mongello while he's giving a tour, do you think he sends them to City Hall to sign up for an official one? Or does he whip out business cards and tell the people to check ourt his site and sign up? <<

<<You have former CM cashing in on Disney tips, and secrets. You have web sites devoted to touring Disney. I don't know how much money they are making, but I do know there are a lot of them.>>

Yep, like I said it's become a cottage industry. Now, I am fairly certain that most of the people aren't making a real living at it. It's either something done on the side or they are being supported by spouses, ex-spouses, family, friends, the government or just have generational wealth that allows them to not work.

But there are others that clearly have made lucrative little businesses for themselves.

<<I'm just curious as to what got this bur under your saddle? A little Texas euphemism for you.>>

We can take this to email if you like ... but I'm tired of being amazed on a daily basis at what people are allowed to get away with.

There's right and there's wrong.

When people start calling this a gray area, I really think they damn well know that this isn't.

Pool-hopping, reusing soda mugs (that many were told were good for future visits) and ways to avoid paying for parking at WDW seem to generate more anger and back-and-forth and 'you're stealing from Disney and will burn in hell!' when it's pretty obvious that you can't set up a business inside WDW. Yet, that's exactly what these folks are doing.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Mongello dislaimer: wdwradio.com/disclosure/>>

Um ... uh ... how do I say this?

Mr. Mongello should have had a lawyer vet his disclaimer before he put it online.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> I'm not being sly. You're just playing devil's advocate. <<

I'm just saying if these people have permission from the powers that be at WDW it's not stealing. If they are doing it on the side, without permission, then it is.

>> Or perhaps Thomas Smith, or someone with some actual power at TDO, could spell out Disney's relationship with these folks on The Disney Parks Blog. <<

We both know things like that would never be discussed there. It does nothing to promote the Magic.

>>
<<We continue to reelect the same corrupt people to office. So who's fault is it.>>

>> I'd suggest we often elect new corrupt people ... I'd also suggest when 98% of your choices are corrupt that you have some problems. <<

I think your figures are a little high there, but that's just my opinion. Possibly a large percentage of the old verterans of Washington DC do live in an alternative Universe though.

 

Originally Posted By leemac

Good golly - where to begin.....

I'm delighted to see that my presence has been sorely missed. Sadly work has been monumentally busy - we do have three non-US resorts that are going gung-ho on the construction front. I'd like to replicate myself so I could get some sleep at some point. Thankfully F! is done at TDS and I've no idea how that got finished considering the situation we had out there.

I had no idea about this fellow until he tried to record me on the Disney Dream back in January. He rammed a camera in my face as I was trying to get set up to play the Detective Agency game - I made it very clear that I didn't appreciate being filmed without consent and he continued until I got in his face - the little weasel then tottered off. He had on some WDW Radio (is that the name?) polo shirt and I had to ask folks who he was. At first I thought he was the oddball that won that Magic Maker competition or whatever it was called a few years back where someone got to be a pseudo-ambassador for a year - I gather he is also still involved in something.

On the tours front I'm gobsmacked that this is tolerated. Particularly at that price point. It does seem that there is a different policy between the left and right coasts. I'm not familiar with the Jim Hill situation and whether this is identical but it shouldn't be tolerated at all - both resorts offer a full-service tour function and therefore this is in direct competition - it isn't as if these fanbois are filling a niche that the Company chooses to ignore. I hope someone has pointed this out to WDW Management.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<When people start calling this a gray area, I really think they damn well know that this isn't. >>

Things only become a grey area if there aren't any clear rules. I had the impression that there weren't rules, but now you say the rules Westsider mentioned about DL apply to WDW as well. I thought it was very stupid of WDW not to have rules, but if they indeed have them I find it pretty unbelievable that they close their eyes about all those tours, wether the Lou style or the Tour Guide Mike style. They offer the same product (it is on their official website: <a href="http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/tours-and-experiences/vip-services/" target="_blank">http://disneyworld.disney.go.c...ervices/</a> ). Why should they let other people take business away from them?

Besides whether this now can be called "stealing" or not, I find it to be an extremely unhealthy relationship of a company with social media and no disclaimer will ever make it any better. And this is actually the part of the whole issue which I find much scarier and not only in relation to Disney: What happens if this grows and gains influence? Is that the way media in the future will look like? Someone in a previous post mentioned that the internet is still in its learning phase - and these are the mistakes that it should learn from and avoid in the future.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> <<She made all those accusations up. I've never dressed up like Klaus Nomi, and sang outside her window.>>

>> I had to Google him ... <<

You do live a sheltered life. Evidently you have never watched URGH! A Music War.

You probably have never seen The Cramps perform either.

WARNING!!! They may be a bit to extreme for you!


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC4LqiRoIE8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...LqiRoIE8</a>

 

Originally Posted By leemac

<<If Disney feels Lou and these others are so crucial to its bottom line (and, trust me on this one, they don't) that they want to pay them off (one way or another ... a meal at Jiko, a gift card at check in that can then be transferred back to a Visa at check out, a vastly discounted room at the BW etc), then Disney should just have a press release put out.>>

This situation is markedly different to how this decade began. When Duncan Wardle was farmed out to the swamps from Disneyland they gave him viral marketing and social media to play with. It took a long time for WDW Co. to come up with a comprehensive policy in regards to dealing with this non-traditional media - now it seems to have taken over the farm. I don't doubt that it should have a place in this world but it appears to be the domineering force now - which is ridiculous. These Mom 'n' Pop website just won't give WDW the eyeballs/clicks/page reads that mainstream media and the Company's own channels will - and where they do it is preaching to the choir as it is solely the fanbois who will go anyhow.

The social media team has grown by stealth and now it is about protecting their patch - so they will continue to do what they do irrespective of whether it makes commercial marketing sense. It is amazing how many people now work at both US resorts in this media. This isn't a criticism per se - it is the modus operandi of any new WDP&R sub-set - it is exactly the same with the Next Gen Experience team.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> Have you seen them? <<

Never. I just know they exist from reading fan sites. They are kind of like UFO's.

>> And, yes, I'll be sure to ask TDLFAN about them! <<

>> <<So why aren't they drawing security's attention?>>

>> I have no idea. Maybe you could find out. <<

You're the one with all the connections. My only inside sources are the CM's who rent ECV's, and the bartender at Territory Lounge.

>> Pool-hopping, reusing soda mugs (that many were told were good for future visits) and ways to avoid paying for parking at WDW seem to generate more anger and back-and-forth and 'you're stealing from Disney and will burn in hell!' when it's pretty obvious that you can't set up a business inside WDW. Yet, that's exactly what these folks are doing. <<

Pool hopping, and stealing soda water, and parking at resorts, and DtD are more widespread issues, that way more folks are more aware of.

This is a gray are issue if we don't know if these people have permission or at what level it might come from if they do.




Wouldn't TDLFAN make the perfect alternative tour guide. I bet he would ban children from his tours too.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

LeeMac I find it hard to believe the WDC does not know this is taking place. Sice it has existed for such a long time I have to believe they were not concerned with it.

If they really weren't aware of it they should have better people monitoring all of these websites.

Glad you are finally catching a break from all the Magic.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Mongello dislaimer: wdwradio.com/disclosure/>>

Just one quick re-reading this (and it's GREAT to see Leemac back and I do want to respond to his posts, but am heading out for the afternoon) ... but on second reading it really appears that disclosure was written by mutiple people and thrown together/forced out.

My reaction on looking at it a second time was 'Gee, I wonder if Lou's pals at WDW Social Media, who damn well have read EVERY post on this thread, sat down with him at the Belleview Lounge at BW and threw this together in an hour because some folks are now asking difficult and troubling questions about WDW's Social Media strategy'.

It sure doesn't read like it was written by a lawyer, and I've read far too many legal docs in my life.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Good golly - where to begin.....

I'm delighted to see that my presence has been sorely missed. Sadly work has been monumentally busy - we do have three non-US resorts that are going gung-ho on the construction front. I'd like to replicate myself so I could get some sleep at some point. Thankfully F! is done at TDS and I've no idea how that got finished considering the situation we had out there.>>

I'm just glad you (some other old posters) are back.

I'd love to hear your opinions on the new Fantasmic (watched it online even though I'm expecting to see it in person later this year).

And I'd like your take on the amount of attractions coming to Shanghai (as the number I've been told isn't very high at all and would indicate Disney still is doing the half-day model).

Then ... well, we could talk about Fantasia vs. Fantasyland ... and a JC with dinos and rafts? And why my earlier artwork shows a Tron attraction and a future one that looks a whole lot like EE.

But this thread is about other creatures, so ...

<<I had no idea about this fellow until he tried to record me on the Disney Dream back in January. He rammed a camera in my face as I was trying to get set up to play the Detective Agency game - I made it very clear that I didn't appreciate being filmed without consent and he continued until I got in his face - the little weasel then tottered off. He had on some WDW Radio (is that the name?) polo shirt and I had to ask folks who he was. At first I thought he was the oddball that won that Magic Maker competition or whatever it was called a few years back where someone got to be a pseudo-ambassador for a year - I gather he is also still involved in something.>>

That is classic. He seems to love sticking mics in people's faces on a regular basis ... see his podcast last week when he really was making a MSUSA CM at the Cinema uncomfortable with putting her on camera and on the spot?

Just him and his posse ... some dude named Scott and some woman named Beci acting like they own the place and can do whatever they like. Coming off slimy and a bit scary.

When legit media has a real news story (like a death) to cover, Disney keeps them off property and across Hotel Plaza Blvd where they routinely set up shop in the McD's and Pizzeria Uno parking lots. I know print reporters who have been stopped by security while talking to folks on property about very innocuous topics.

So, again, Lou apparently gets to play by other rules because he can do what he pleases.


<<On the tours front I'm gobsmacked that this is tolerated. Particularly at that price point. It does seem that there is a different policy between the left and right coasts. I'm not familiar with the Jim Hill situation and whether this is identical but it shouldn't be tolerated at all - both resorts offer a full-service tour function and therefore this is in direct competition - it isn't as if these fanbois are filling a niche that the Company chooses to ignore. I hope someone has pointed this out to WDW Management.>>

Hill's situation was widely chronicled when it happened in 2005 and I feel he was treated quite justly. I've since heard that his ex-Fabby also used to do tours as well, although she apparently used more discretion and got away with them for some time.

But with ONE DISNEY and all, I find it impossible to believe that in Anaheim it is strictly prohibited, while in O-Town it is the Wild West and anything goes.

More likely, it seems, there are people in O-Town that are helping him (and others) get away with it and he's giving out TDO's talking points in a quid pro quo deal.

As I've said elsewhere, if he can give these tours, why can't you, Pierce or I?

Disney's publicists may not be the swiftest bunch. I'd venture to say that many in O-Town are among the slowest I've ever seen ... but when Thomas Smith or Gary Buchanan's taking Lou on a lunching around the world deal or bringing some voice talent from Clone Wars to him for a 10-minute one-on-one for his podcast to say they don't know what is going on (and therefore giving WDW Co's tacit approval) is absurd.

The man has better access and invites than people who work for the company (not meaning you in particular).

As to WDW Management, I've taken the liberty of reporting the activity to someone in Burbank because it appears that WDW isn't feeling like shutting the guy down (and I REALLY do NOT want to wind up getting him a job with the WDW Co. as a way of making the problem disappear). But I would think with your connections that you could clue anyone in on what's going on here as well.

The more this situation is exposed, the greater the chance they will (all of them, not just Lou) get shut down ... and I really think they need to send folks around the park with him if they're going to let him tape and broadcast with impunity ... because I sure as hell don't want to be bothered by him or put on one of his casts.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Mr. Mongello should have had a lawyer vet his disclaimer before he put it online.<<<


He IS a Lawyer, that's the scary part.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

Nice to see LeeMac back!

 

Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1

"but when Thomas Smith or Gary Buchanan's taking Lou on a lunching around the world deal or bringing some voice talent from Clone Wars to him for a 10-minute one-on-one for his podcast"

Try Julie Andrews and the Sherman Brothers.

THAT is how far he is "in" with TDO!

 

Originally Posted By skinnerbox

I'm now left asking just one question:

Whom in TDO is Lou blackmailing?