WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By Christi22222

I can not believe I'm reading posts with the words "Disney," "whores," and "magic" all in appropriate context. Sigh. Corporate America sucks.

 

Originally Posted By Scutr

"Corporate America"....now there's an oxymoron for you.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>I can not believe I'm reading posts with the words "Disney," "whores," and "magic" all in appropriate context. Sigh. Corporate America sucks.<<<

It's so hard, for someone like me, who eats up history, and knows about WDW's grand and illustrious past, to see them preforming so low. It kills me.

 

Originally Posted By Indigo

So much has been covered in this topic I'm not even sure where to start. First, thank you for making the distinction between The Disney Blog and the Disney Parks Blog. Long time readers of The Disney Blog will recall that I have been a long time advocate for Disney to get into the blogging and social media game. I was happy to take a meeting and a few questions about blogging and social media strategy when Disney World was laying out the plans for its blog. While I'm not totally happy with the current direction of the blog, it's better than the complete lack of communication we used to get from Disney.

Obviously, as I'm part of the group of bloggers and website owners who get invited to Disney media events, I have a certain bias. I believe I should continue to be invited as part of the media. But I don't have any illusions that my circulation (estimated at above 400K article views a month) reaches as many of Disney's target market as some of the traditional media does (Local news stations, morning shows, even Disney travel planning authors and websites (such as LP.com)). But I begin to rival some magazines and radio audiences. Add to that the fact that my demographics lines up pretty well with Disney's target demographics and I think that's a pretty strong case for inviting me to media events. I don't expect the same treatment as Good Morning America or even MyFoxOrlando and I don't get the same treatment. I'm fine with that. Most of the time I get what my audience needs.

I quickly want to address Disney Park's push on social media. I don't see it as a replacement for traditional media, but rather as an addition. When online media is invited to Disney media events it's not at the exclusion of traditional media, but as a supplement to it. That goes with the whole trend of the internet. Everything is getting spread out and coverage can come from anyone, anywhere, at anytime. Photos of the BTMRR Accident at Paris Disneyland, some guest snapped them. Photos showing the sad & rotting condition of the Sailing Ship Columbia before a cleat was torn out from its rotting wood and killed a guest, that came from online media.

Now, I know I have a role to play with The Disney Blog (or you might say I've chosen a niche I'm comfortable with). It's not to be the most critical of online media, but I'm also not the most fanboi either. I pretty much call them like I see them, which is usually through some pretty thick pixie dust filled filters, since that's how I live my life. You can choose to read what I write or not, that's the glory of the Interwebz. I'm thankful every day for the people who choose to read what I write.

I'm thankful every time I get invited to a Disney media event. Because frankly, they don't have to. They could go back to the way things were in 1998 when I had to arrive early to stake a spot in the crowd and get my quotes only from personal contacts. Then, in 1999 when the US Women's Soccer Team won the World Cup for the first time everything changed. Laughing Place was invited to cover a media event as press for the first time. Doobie took photos and I ran around with a notepad and interviewed guests (screaming young girls attired in their soccer gear). I'll never forget watching the LA Times reporter see me interview two young girls then heading over to ask them some questions too. The next day, before my story (<a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/news-id500170.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/n...0170.asp</a> ) could run in Laughing Place, the LA Times had an interview with the same girls. I was crushed, but also elated. (Btw, I have a communications/journalism background, so I wasn't just winging it out there.)

After that we were invited to a few window dedications and then larger events. Then a few other online media sites were added to the list. Eventually the trend spread east, where guidebook authors (who also ran websites) had been invited for sometime, but around 2004 they started inviting a few select other sites as well. It wasn't really until 2008 that Disney World started inviting more online media. In 2009 the Mommy Blogger program took off and the Disney Parks Blog found its footing. Since then, everything has been riding a crescendo that corresponds to the accelerating pace of the online marketing revolution. Disney is riding that wave, just as we all are.

Eventually it will all level out, but for now I'm enjoying the ride. Just remember, we have Cynthia Harriss (and her 1999 era staff) to thank for online media being accepted as press.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<I can not believe I'm reading posts with the words "Disney," "whores," and "magic" all in appropriate context. Sigh. Corporate America sucks. >>

Not if you work on Wall Street ... or are very wealthy and can play the market (and the rest of America) ... or you're just a mindless rube who thinks that what's good for Wall Street (things like a weak dollar, high gas prices, lack of regulation on banking) is somehow good for the average person on Main Street.

Such a toxic stew ...

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

First, I want to thank Indigo for offering his very articulate and reasoned viewpoint to the discussion (not that I wasn't enjoying the hatefest on The Mongello and Others, but we can get back to that).

A few things I'd like to comment on ...

<<Obviously, as I'm part of the group of bloggers and website owners who get invited to Disney media events, I have a certain bias. I believe I should continue to be invited as part of the media. But I don't have any illusions that my circulation (estimated at above 400K article views a month) reaches as many of Disney's target market as some of the traditional media does (Local news stations, morning shows, even Disney travel planning authors and websites (such as LP.com)). But I begin to rival some magazines and radio audiences. Add to that the fact that my demographics lines up pretty well with Disney's target demographics and I think that's a pretty strong case for inviting me to media events. I don't expect the same treatment as Good Morning America or even MyFoxOrlando and I don't get the same treatment. I'm fine with that. Most of the time I get what my audience needs.>>

I can't comment on your circulation, but I do know that Disney is actively inviting people who barely have an online pulse. And others who greatly overstate their impact because their content is packaged and re-packaged on multiple sites. I naturally can't prove it, but I am very certain that many of what they'd claim as 'unique' hits are from the same fanbois who are simply going from site to site.

I've noticed this in the Twitterverse where folks are constantly regurgitating others' links to again make it appear they have a greater impact and import than reality.

I can easily make an argument why many online folks should be included in Disney's coverage with traditional media. But it's also very obvious that Disney has pretty much opened the buffet line to everyone with an appetite and a desire to spin the Company's talking points.

I appreciate your honesty (dare I say integrity?) and openness. I don't think Disney fan sites should be treated like GMA, the NY Times, the Miami Herald, CBS News or WESH ... regardless of the reach of some sites, they still largely are preaching to an audience Disney already owns. I also don't believe, and I know a thing or two about media, that blogs and podcasts and the like are attracting people and bringing new business to Disney. That's why I feel moderation needs to be used with online folks ... and that is simply not the case now.

Some online people are being given an absurd level of access and what amounts to tens of thousands of dollars in cruises, hotel stays/discounts, free meals, free ... well, you name it. And that opens all sorts of ethical (possibly legal as well) questions, subjects and concerns.

<<I quickly want to address Disney Park's push on social media. I don't see it as a replacement for traditional media, but rather as an addition. When online media is invited to Disney media events it's not at the exclusion of traditional media, but as a supplement to it. That goes with the whole trend of the internet. Everything is getting spread out and coverage can come from anyone, anywhere, at anytime. Photos of the BTMRR Accident at Paris Disneyland, some guest snapped them. Photos showing the sad & rotting condition of the Sailing Ship Columbia before a cleat was torn out from its rotting wood and killed a guest, that came from online media.>>

There's no doubt that online media has done plenty of real reporting, in many cases better than real journalism outlets. Look at what Al Lutz has accomplished. But I'd also point out that the VAST majority of online folks aren't of that ilk and will ignore placing negative comments and photos on their sites (unless they are trying to send the company a message about their treatment).

It's very easy to put a construction wall photo up. It takes a bit more balls to put a rotting wall photo up.

<<Now, I know I have a role to play with The Disney Blog (or you might say I've chosen a niche I'm comfortable with). It's not to be the most critical of online media, but I'm also not the most fanboi either. I pretty much call them like I see them, which is usually through some pretty thick pixie dust filled filters, since that's how I live my life. You can choose to read what I write or not, that's the glory of the Interwebz. I'm thankful every day for the people who choose to read what I write. >>

Some of us do read ... when we get the time!

<<I'm thankful every time I get invited to a Disney media event. Because frankly, they don't have to. They could go back to the way things were in 1998 when I had to arrive early to stake a spot in the crowd and get my quotes only from personal contacts. Then, in 1999 when the US Women's Soccer Team won the World Cup for the first time everything changed. Laughing Place was invited to cover a media event as press for the first time. Doobie took photos and I ran around with a notepad and interviewed guests (screaming young girls attired in their soccer gear). I'll never forget watching the LA Times reporter see me interview two young girls then heading over to ask them some questions too. The next day, before my story (<a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/n...0170.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/n...0170.asp</a> ) could run in Laughing Place, the LA Times had an interview with the same girls. I was crushed, but also elated. (Btw, I have a communications/journalism background, so I wasn't just winging it out there.)>>

That was a long time ago, yet it seems so recent (hey Pierce, is that what getting old is all about?)
I also have to say that having a communications/journalism background should give you a bit more respect and, yes, attention from Disney when it comes to things like invites.

My personal feeling is Disney would rather folks who are strictly the bored housewives, ex-lawyers, fanbois living in Mom's basement, soccer moms type of blogger at their events. They are the Walmart folks that can be bought easily and are so used to being ordinary that they feel empowered when they are given a credential lanyard.

<<After that we were invited to a few window dedications and then larger events. Then a few other online media sites were added to the list. Eventually the trend spread east, where guidebook authors (who also ran websites) had been invited for sometime, but around 2004 they started inviting a few select other sites as well. It wasn't really until 2008 that Disney World started inviting more online media. In 2009 the Mommy Blogger program took off and the Disney Parks Blog found its footing. Since then, everything has been riding a crescendo that corresponds to the accelerating pace of the online marketing revolution. Disney is riding that wave, just as we all are.

Eventually it will all level out, but for now I'm enjoying the ride. Just remember, we have Cynthia Harriss (and her 1999 era staff) to thank for online media being accepted as press. >>

Ah ... Cynthia ... the stories I could tell ... (but won't here).

I like your wave analogy ... I just think there could be a tsunami of issues because of the way Disney is running its Social Media Department. They need someone with some sense of the big media landscape as well as the ways of the online fan community in charge ... and they really need to chop some heads off. Oh, I'd love that job ... and don't worry Indigo, you'd still be credentialed for most/all events. But there would be changes ... BIG changes. ;-)

And I really think you're going to see them anyway. It's obvious that WDW Co. is letting a Wild West mentality fly in O-Town to the detriment of the company and the brand.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

I naturally can't prove it, but I am very certain that many of what they'd claim as 'unique' hits are from the same fanbois who are simply going from site to site.
-------

comparison of IP addresses would tell one that..


gee I run a blog for 4 years now for a large school district in Illinois - we get about 600 unique hits on an average day ( higher during election and referendum times)..maybe I should add a Disney section and apply for free stuff

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

^^ btw - I know we have a fair share of DVC members registered from off line discussions

 

Originally Posted By figment1986

Wow, such a lively discussion... makes me wonder about some things, then I remember I have credentials with SeaWorld Parks and Universal Orlando and then back away...

 

Originally Posted By andyll

Sorry... i'm not buying the assertion that 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' getting a bunch of free stuff.

Typical internet strawman debate... put out a false vague assertion and after a page everyone is debating as if its true.

I'd like to see a little more then "i've been told" before I worry about soccer moms getting a bunch of free stuff.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Sorry... i'm not buying the assertion that 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' getting a bunch of free stuff<<<

How do you explain sites like InsideTheMagic, WDWNT, and WDWMagic getting comped when they head to events? BS.

 

Originally Posted By wmax3234

>>>How do you explain sites like InsideTheMagic, WDWNT, and WDWMagic getting comped when they head to events? BS.<<<

Don't forget Discussion Kingdom on that list....

 

Originally Posted By andyll

<<How do you explain sites like InsideTheMagic, WDWNT, and WDWMagic getting comped when they head to events? BS. >>

1)I don't know that they are.

2)I don't consider the listed sites 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' sites

3)Disney allows websites to attend any media events just like any other media with the proper credentials.

The OP claimed that 125 out of 250 spots of the star tours preview went to 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' sites

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Don't forget Discussion Kingdom on that list....<<<

I help run that site.

We DON'T get comped. LOL. And, I might add, we don't promote the same overstated positive "Disney Can Do No Wrong" bit, either.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Sorry... i'm not buying the assertion that 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' getting a bunch of free stuff.

Typical internet strawman debate... put out a false vague assertion and after a page everyone is debating as if its true.

I'd like to see a little more then "i've been told" before I worry about soccer moms getting a bunch of free stuff.>>

Don't be sorry. People can believe what they choose. Ignorance is bliss or so I've been told.

You don't have to believe what I am saying on this subject, all you have to do is some research online. Bloggers and new media (a term that is a bit oxymoronic as it isn't really new anymore and many forms of it show a tendency to lose popularity and flame out in favor of the 'next thing' in social networking) are regularly invited to events put on by the WDW Co.

They receive (and it is different from site to site, which causes a whole lot of whining and 'what about me's?!?!' online) everything from free airfare to free cruises and hotel stays (or discounted ... vastly ... unless you can snag a room at the GF for say $100 a night) to free admission media, recreational opportunities (from spa days to parasailing to the Petty NASCAR experience), private party invites with free food/booze, meal vouchers, and general swag (everything from Gift Cards to plush to pins).

Again, that is the truth. And anyone with any knowledge of how WDW Social Media operates will tell you this ... from Indigo to Leemac to Doobie (just on this site alone). The truth is out there.

As to worry ... I wouldn't worry about it at all unless you're a Disney exec or Wall Street analyst or brand consultant. But as someone fascinated by the creativity AND business of TWDC, I am very interested by it (sickened by some, amused by some).

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<How do you explain sites like InsideTheMagic, WDWNT, and WDWMagic getting comped when they head to events? BS.>>

The scary thing is I didn't even know that two of those sites existed until very recently. ... As to MAGIC, I wasn't aware they attended/were credentialed for events. I may be wrong there, but one would have thought if they did that the PTB there would have been on the Dream and would have been at Destination D etc. ... If I'm wrong, then please let me know. Although to be fair (and I don't like the way Steve and his mods run/censor those MAGICal boards), I would certainly credential someone from the site based on its traffic.

<<Don't forget Discussion Kingdom on that list....>>

I don't believe DK is on any of Disney's invite lists either.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<How do you explain sites like InsideTheMagic, WDWNT, and WDWMagic getting comped when they head to events? BS. >>

<<1)I don't know that they are.>>

Those sites may or may not be. Not familiar enough to say, but I do believe at least one of them probably is.

<<2)I don't consider the listed sites 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' sites>>

You want to play a semantics game? I'd call them all fanboi sites run by fanbois (perhaps older than what you consider a fanboi to be).

You appear to have a stake/pony in this race. What's really on your mind?

<<3)Disney allows websites to attend any media events just like any other media with the proper credentials.>>

Disney doesn't allow all websites to attend any media events. They rate and rank and play favorites (apparently anything with 'Mommy' in it is big today because apparently Mommies do all the spending and decision-making) based on all sorts of criteria. A stunning amount that people might be shocked to know is subjective and not at all objective ... and this even harkens back to before there was such a thing as online media.

As to proper credentials, I'd love to know what you define that to mean in the blogger/podcast world. A walk-in closet altar dedicated to EPCOT ... or plush? There's no accrediting organization that signs off on Disney fan sites.

<<The OP claimed that 125 out of 250 spots of the star tours preview went to 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' sites>>

I am/was the OP. I don't recall whether I gave a number, but I recall being told it was high. And when I later saw the official list on The Disney Parks Blog a friend and I recognized a large percentage of folks from the online world. If you extrapolated that each of those brought a guest, as they were allowed, I feel pretty confident in saying a large number of folks there were related to sites online.

I've been told that in some ways this 'event' was tacked on as a 'make do' deal because many online folks were NOT invited/credentialed for the official party that night or the opening the next morning (or the three-day resort experience media event that was also going on). This was likely on purpose by WDW Social Media as they didn't want these people anywhere close to Iger and Lucas ... and they did get some negative pushback from Burbank after the Dream launch.

This was simply an attempt at paring the list a bit, while trying to not piss off a group that can be very childlike, petulant and vindictive when they don't get their way.

But while that night/event started this discussion, I think it's moved on to more important issues.

 

Originally Posted By GOB

Lou recently changed his Disclosure...here's a picture: (Previous disclosure on left, current disclosure on right)

<a href="http://i53.tinypic.com/1jlgw.png" target="_blank">http://i53.tinypic.com/1jlgw.png</a>

 

Originally Posted By andyll

<<2)I don't consider the listed sites 'fanboi/soccer mom/bored housewife bloggers' sites>>

You want to play a semantics game? I'd call them all fanboi sites run by fanbois (perhaps older than what you consider a fanboi to be).

-----------

The semantics were yours. ( that's why they were in quotes )

How about an example of a 'Mommy' site that gets comps that you think shouldn't.

<<And when I later saw the official list on The Disney Parks Blog a friend and I recognized a large percentage of folks from the online world>>

Wow. A large percentage of online folks registered on an online blog on a topic they write online about? Who would have thought that could happen.

<<You appear to have a stake/pony in this race.>>

Not really... just amused and that vague and unsubstantiated assertions result in 28 pages of discussion.

I did get invited to the media event at Times Square tomorrow... hope the airline tickets arrive real quick.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Lou recently changed his Disclosure...here's a picture: (Previous disclosure on left, current disclosure on right)

<a href="http://i53.tinypic.com/1jlgw.png>>" target="_blank">http://i53.tinypic.com/1jlgw.png>></a>

That's at least his third ... and I am anticipating you'll be seeing a fourth


So much time and effort ... you gotta feel for them ... or not!