WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> You're reading comprehension needs work. I do not have a blog.
<<

Yes my reading comprehension does need some work. My mother encouraged me to get my degree from Elementary school, but I was young, and foolish, and sought adventure, and fortune at an early age. For some reason I just can't seem to get it out of my head that you have a blog. Silly me.

>> However I'm curious at your litmus test of forcing people who post here to disclose this infomation. <<

My dear Sir or Madame, I'm afraid you are overreacting. I can't force anyone here to say or do anything. I merely ask questions. You are free to respond or not responded.

>> Are you going to ask Doobie to disclose this infomation? <<

You're right I really should. Doobie do you run a web site. Doobie do you post a blog. Doobie does Disney compensate you for anything that you post.

Shouldn't you ask me the same questions. I promise I won't be as defensive as you if you do.

Anybody else out there care to fess up to taking payola from Mickey?

>> Are you going to ask Spirit to disclose their sources so we can judge the validity of the information posted here? <<

Andy, (you never did say if I could call you Andy or not, but I like keeping our discussions on a friendly informal bases) I go on a persons track record here at LP. Spirit has a very good one. He is very well established here as well as other Disney forums. Might I also add that he is reviled in a lot of circles also. That's understandable though since he drinks Starbucks iced lattes. As I stated before I do not expect anyone to pass around the names of their sources. Just between you, and me though I personally think that Spirit's source is Miss Cleo.

>> This thread is becoming a witchhunt and does not reflect well on laughingplace or its posters. <<

Well I believe that each poster is responsible for what they say. Personally I just see a bunch of Disney fans stating their opinions.

Now when you start seeing me stacking rocks on the press that incases a Disney Fanboi Blogger, then, and only then, should you accuse me of being party to a witch hunt.

Now Andy, care to tell me why this topic has seemed to have touched a raw nerve with you? Especially since you are not a Disney Fanboi Blogger.

 

Originally Posted By skinnerbox

Andy stated:

<<This thread is becoming a witchhunt and does not reflect well on laughingplace or its posters.>>

Pierce responded:

<<Now Andy, care to tell me why this topic has seemed to have touched a raw nerve with you? Especially since you are not a Disney Fanboi Blogger.>>


I have an idea why this is upsetting to Andy. I believe it's related to this previous statement made by him:

<<I am affiliated with a small disney website.>>


I'm guessing that the head of this particular site is very upset with the OP -- Spirit -- for starting this thread, and the message that Spirit is communicating, regarding how Burbank is now investigating these "social media" sites and merchandise and services associated with them, like video DVDs of the parks and the private tours being given by some of the fan personalities like Mr. Mongello. So naturally, Andy is coming to the defense of this person and the site that he/she runs. He's come to the thread to defend this individual since he/she obviously doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to defend themselves.

I'll just leave it at that, before I, uh, step into it even further.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

Usually you have to read between the lines here...Not today!

 

Originally Posted By andyll

<<I'll just leave it at that, before I, uh, step into it even further>>

Wrong. I have never heard of Mr. Mongello ( or any of the sites mentioned here) until this thread.

I don't even particularly care about the topic.

I was just up late last night with a sick kid and ended up browsing a bunch of threads I typically wouldn't waste my time on.

I must say I'm becoming more interested...

Not really in the individual thread topics but what seems to be an agenda.

Not the typical LP 'everything about modern DL/WDW' sucks agenda but more of like:

"someone at Disney has an issue that may conflict with the offical company line so lets take the agenda to the public forums"

A couple of offhand comments/reactions seem really out of place otherwise.

90% reading this will think I'm crazy but there is a long history of forum/groups manipulation going back to the OS/2 Warp against MS NT wars.

It happens big time with political topics.

I'm going to have to start visiting other forums to see if the same agenda/topics are floating around out there.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

Ok, I thought the first post's "conspiracy theory" was a bit far fetched, but now you are saying that there is a conspiracy about manipulating LP discussions??

That's quite strange to complain about others discussing possible influence of the Walt Disney company on blogs and then claim that more or less the same is happening with this discussion??

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<At the Social Media Moms event a year or so ago I was shocked when I overheard different (invited) guests talk about the amount of hits on their sites to each other.. In most cases I had more on 365 Disney Style than they did on their sites (and I DONT consider myself a blogger!)if they had more it was negligible...

True I didn't talk to everyone and I realize some were the Moms Panel but it just shocked me...>>

Yep ... it makes you realize how incredibly insignificant a vast majority of these sites are.

We aren't talking about LP.com here ... or Miceage ... or WDWMAGIC ... or whatever Deb Wills' site is called (can't recall).

When you start realizing what a small net is being cast and that the same fish are being caught (starting with family and friends and online connections), then you realize what an echo chamber is.

Not one person since this thread was started has been able to 'splain to me how going after these people (and wining and dining them) actually is good for business and, in particular, grows the business for TWDC.

The more I talk about it and think about it, the more it seems like WDW is largely courting these people to justify a large, bloated Social Media Department that REALLY could use some fat trimmed.

I do believe this was what Leemac was alluding to earlier and would love to hear more of his thoughts.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

"Bottom line, if you write a blog on Disney, you don't go writing about Mouse traps ... or boy wizards."

<<Especially that last part.

I think I realized something was wrong in the (head)state of Mongello when I was listening to one of his podcasts about three years ago and he made a disparaging reference to "that place up the road".

This was the first time I realized that EXTREMELY petty people make it a policy that you can either be a fan of Disney or Universal but NOT both. I was sickened by this because I felt(even back then, hell even in 2001!)that Universal's offerings(ESPECIALLY IOA)were at least equal to Disney's!

It just smacked of an extremely immature and limited viewpoint. Of course, I realized also not long after that this was mainly motivated by a proprietary and financial interest on his part and it made it even MORE reprehensible!>>

I think you nailed it in the paragraph directly above.

Many of these folks are immature and limited. And while they may have a love for pixie dust and MAGIC, they also know there's nothing to be gained by comparing Disney to the other offerings in town and that it can only hurt them in the financial end and on the Disney invite list.

Remember, this is the company that recently put out a list of talking points for its managerial cast regarding WWoHP and the new Fantasyland expansion's changes (which were contradicted on the record by Imagineers at the recent D23 event).

But, really, what would you expect Lou (or most of the Disney-centric sites) to say about Potter/IOA?

The thing is, though, for many folks who don't own pixie dust pipes, Disney is becoming known as 'the other place up the road'.

That's what years of Walmarting and becoming a real estate company will do for your brand perception ...

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Twitter has value? During times of great crisis, it is basically a real-time misinformation generator.>>

So true. ... Technology may be great, but never has so much bad information been able to spread so quickly and balloon.

But Ashton Kutcher Tweets 6,652 times a day, so I guess I am missing something!


<<Yes, the value of social network is greatly overestimated.>>

I could write books on the subject, but no one reads them anymore from what I hear on social networking sites anyway!

Here's a good read on whay social networking is actually doing more to tear us apart and be divisive than it is in bringing us together:
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/vision/151058/what_facebook_is_hiding_from_you/?page=entire" target="_blank">http://www.alternet.org/vision...e=entire</a>

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<But, really, what would you expect Lou (or most of the Disney-centric sites) to say about Potter/IOA?>>

Interestingly enough, the podcast from the people running the DISboards regularly covers Universal (in a positive way) and they are even having their annual big event in December at WWOHP which they are renting out for a private party.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<There is another reason why it's stupid to pledge allegiance to Disney and Disney alone. You are basically eradicating consumer choice for yourself. All other things being equal, more choice is preferable to less choice. More competition is preferable to less competition. By never considering Universal or Sea World or whatever else, you basically fail to hold Disney accountable for anything it does or doesn't do (I use "accountable" lightly, for holding Disney accountable isn't really as important as holding the local utility accountable, for example).

The point is that your wallet is the most powerful tool you have as a consumer. By blindly pledging what little money you have to one corporation and disregarding all others, you essentially invite that corporation to take advantage of you, whether you know it or not.>>

But that's what Disney caters to in its fanbase, a desire to pretend that there are no other options.

That was fine in the 50s and 60s and maybe even 70s(talking theme parks here) because Disney could arguably say it didn't have any competition. It could still say it was at the pinnacle in the 80s and into the 90s ... but then it got greedy and lazy and stopped caring about what put it at the top. It figured it could always replace old guests/fans with new ones who wouldn't have the same expectations (and, sadly, that has been true to some degree).

Even here on LP.com, which I absolutely believe has the most intelligent, articulate and thinking (even including Pierce and that dude in the UK ... Davewasmybedmateatheathrow) you still have folks that will say they basically don't care if the place isn't what it once was, it's still their happy place yada, yada, yada.

On other sites, it's like Jim Jones and Koolaid. Disney is a religion and if you say anything against it, they'll burn ya.

<<We have many instances in life where consumer choice is decreased due to legal, natural and arbitrary causes. But to decrease choice for yourself is a mental illness in my opinion.>>

Ah ... that flows right into my mental illness in the Disney fan community hypothesis ... and how the company knowingly takes advantage and uses it (both in marketing and when inviting online blogging/podcasting whores in).

 

Originally Posted By skinnerbox

<<The more I talk about it and think about it, the more it seems like WDW is largely courting these people to justify a large, bloated Social Media Department that REALLY could use some fat trimmed.>>

B-I-N-G-O!

That's what this is mostly about, folks trying to justify their existence.

At one end, you have the middle managers in Disney Social Media attempting to justify their existence by actively courting the bloggers and podcasters so they have something to "handle." And at the other end, you have the bloggers and podcasters themselves, trying to justify their web existence to the fan base, so as to support their position to Disney that the Mouse needs them because of all the prospective customers they reach out to on a regular basis.

It's all about self-serving behavior, and the money Disney both spends and loses out on, through their bloated Social Media department.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<So how does our very own LP play into all this? Are they just considered to be a media outlet?>>

I don't know if I'm the best one to answer this (and we've had Leemac wade in here a few days ago).

But LP.com is certainly viewed, and rightfully so, as an online Disney media outlet. The site has been up since the late 90s and is well-respected by many people in (and out) of TWDC.

Since 2005, Lee and Lindsay (the real talent if you ask me as I truly believe his photos are generally works of art!) and Doobie and Rebekah and Co have put out the best damn Disney fan publication in Tales From the LP. It was so good that Disney kind of 'borrowed' the idea for their slick commerical (and largely vapid) D23 fanzine published by the lovely (ask anyone involved in NY politics) Zenia Mucha (I encourage all Disney D23 members to friend her on FB!)

I've at times had some heated debates with Leemac, but he knows his stuff and is among the elite of the fan community in all seriousness.

But the fact is Disney is grouping all sorts of nobodies into the social media pond in, again, what seems like a totally wild west social media strategy (if they even have one) largely to justify the staffing they have brought on.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<As for Mr. Mongello, like I said earlier I used to listen to his show but then dropped off once the format changed.>>

I didn't even know who he was a year ago. And when I've heard his name mentioned it generally was with an expletive or a not nice word.

But watching part of one podcast told me more than enough ... and creeped me out too.

I have to wonder what Tom Staggs thinks ... and what Bob Iger would if he sat through one.

<<I have no problem with something being passionate about what they love. His happens to be Disney. Great. But hearing about the ways he gets his interviews or exclusives well that leaves a bit of a sour taste.>>

Well, if it makes you feel better I just don't see him continuing to operate the way he has been ... but this is Disney. Anything is possible.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>>>The scary thing is I didn't even know that two of those sites existed until very recently. ... As to MAGIC, I wasn't aware they attended/were credentialed for events. I may be wrong there, but one would have thought if they did that the PTB there would have been on the Dream and would have been at Destination D etc. ... If I'm wrong, then please let me know. Although to be fair (and I don't like the way Steve and his mods run/censor those MAGICal boards), I would certainly credential someone from the site based on its traffic.<<<

<<They do. Seeing that Steve is very private (can't blame him) I guess they send a ... operative. >>

Are you sure? As in 100% proof positive, you'd bet the lives of your plush?

It would certainly make sense with the 'tude that is expressed there and the fact that dissent (i.e. talk critical of Disney or on deep topics about Disney and major media) gets buried or disappears.

It is the only site I know of where a construction wall or new planter can be fodder for dozens of pages of posts.

Imagine if I were still posting on that site and I mentioned the concept of adding an Adventurer's Club type dining concept to the MK is being talked about?

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<In case anyone was wondering, here's a list of 385 Disney fan-based web sites, ranked. (This was last updated on June of 2009, however):
<a href="http://www.thedisneyportal.com...ites.asp" target="_blank">http://www.thedisneyportal.com...ites.asp</a>

Here's the top fifty, along with previous ranking and degree of movement. (Bear i mind this was two years ago).>>

While the top 10 kinda makes sense to me ... seeing others so low really doesn't ring true. And many are listed separately when they really part of the same thing (Miceage vs. Micechat ... hell, LP.com AND the LP Store here).

A great many of them I've never even heard of (not that that makes a difference), but I'm sure Disney has 'invested' thousands and thousand of dollars on many of them.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Marketing Message is not Social Media.

Marketing Message is not Social Media.

Marketing Message is not Social Media.>>

I heard you the first time, Doug.

And when Disney uses Social Media as de facto advertising, they are spreading their marketing message.

Are you gonna disagree with that? Or am I not being clear here (seriously)?

<<When you go to Kraft do you expect a discussion of the health risks of mayonnaise? Does General Motors sponsor discussion boards about the superiority of mass transit over the internal combustion engine? Does Sanrio encourage folks to explore the wonderful world of manga? No. Kraft wants you to buy their mayonaisse. General Motors wants you to buy their cars. Sanrio wants fanatical loyalty to Hello Kitty.>>

Of course. But you are talking about sites owned and controlled by the corporations.

I don't expect DisneyWorld.com or The Disney Parks Blog to do anything but shill for the company.

But supposed independent fan-based sites are something different. I don't expect the company talking points or PR spin. That's what separates them.

That's why I've always enjoyed coming to the LP.

<<And Disney creates and maintains web sites to encourage people to be loyal to their brand. It's pretty transparent to me. If any of these companies were engaging in outright deception, then there'd be room for criticism. But I really don't see it.>>

Again, that's fine if you're talking about Disney's official channels.

But when you start getting into payola and graft and allowing certain webmasters/bloggers/podcasters to be given special treatment/access (and, in many cases, freebies worth thousands of dollars), you've entered a whole different territory. Many fans who read those sites don't realize what is going on, so when they read how MAGICal something at WDW is or how they should go take a Disney Dream 4-day cruise for more then what you could take a seven day cruise in a suite on another line for ... well, it feels dirty and underhanded.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> Imagine if I were still posting on that site and I mentioned the concept of adding an Adventurer's Club type dining concept to the MK is being talked about? <<

It won't work there. I even bet Leewhodesperatelymissestheacandislovedbyalldisneyfanboysandfangirlsalike would say the same thing. The AC was meant strictly to be adult entertainment, in a nightclub like setting. This would be like ordering a Bloody Mary, and being served Tomato juice.

Or was this just a parable.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<< Exactly which blog site do you run, and what compensations have you received from TWDC?>>

<<What does your question have to do with what you quoted?

And why is it any of your business?>>

Hey, learn some respect for your elders. Pierce (at 97) is the oldest toad in the LP pond (wonder if the Witches will see that) and deserves some reverance.

<<However...

I do not run a blog.

I am affiliated with a small disney website.

I do have access to Disney's online press websites.

I am on Disney emailing list for press releases.>>

What a shock. Funny how when a thread like this gets lots of attention from prying eyes in all sorts of places (from apartments of bloggers that are so cluttered with Disney stuff they'd fit in on Hoarders to boardrooms in Burbank) suddenly posters who are either new or never have much to say suddenly appear.

I always chalk it up to coincidence ;-)


<<I have not received anything of monetary value from Disney.

However...

If credentialed in Disney eyes I would expect more access to events/people then the general public.

and

If offered discounts as incentives to cover Disney media events I would have no ethical issues with accepting them and would disclose them per FTC rules.>>

Ah, so you do aspire to join the massive whorefest Disney has created ... not surprised.

Would you be interested in joining a beta-test for my MAGICal Spirited Tour of the MK: What Phil Doesn't Want You To Know? ... early sign-ups will get 20% off and a free LE pin (of my choice, no exchanges).

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>> However...

If credentialed in Disney eyes I would expect more access to events/people then the general public. <<

Certainly. I would have to say if you are just a little more positive with what you blog, you will become credential in Disney's eyes perhaps.

>> and

If offered discounts as incentives to cover Disney media events I would have no ethical issues with accepting them and would disclose them per FTC rules. <<

<<It's always good to be honest about things. I'm sure the lobbyist in Washinton D.C. don't influence Congress either with their gifts.>>

I really do love Pierce ... (in a strictly platonic way!)

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<As arrogant, and abrasive as Spirit may seem to you, his track record for knowing what's going on at Disney is pretty impressive. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I suspect you already know that.>>

Arrogant and abrasive?!??! Moi?!?!

I think you're gonna make me cry with compliments like that ... it really is beginning to feel like summer.

Oh, and I suspect a lot out of Andy myself. Funny how the other thread he has decided to post on is regarding NEXTGEN and folks who profit on Disney's IP/copyrights.

I know ... all coincidence.