WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By vbdad55

Facebooked Dalmatians

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Brand advocates.

Think about that for a minute.

Do those two words go together? Ever?

When last I looked, BRAND is the antithesis of generic. It speaks for itself.

Does anyone recall WDW advertising in the 70s and 80s before Michael Eisner came to Disney? Not likely because WDW simply didn't do massive national or international ad campaigns. And yet, in a 'less connected' era (no 865 cable channels, no Internet, no smart phones and iPads) Disney equaled quality and people came by the millions from every corner of the globe.

They somehow knew the place existed.

They somehow knew what it was about and what it meant.

They didn't need someone in their community 'annointed' by a corporation (which pays them off in free trips and swag etc) to convince them to hop on a plane or load the family in the SUV.

And, no, we're not talking about a company signing a celeb to promote the product. This is about using neighbors, co-workers, peers in an insidious and dangerous manner to PIMP the PIXIE DUST.

If you listen to the words, Duncan clearly makes it obvious it's about one thing and one thing only: propaganda. How very Communist.

Oh, and if Disney truly gets 18 positive posts online for every negative one, then I'm obviously not doing a very good job and I apologize.

But what do I know? Surprisingly, quite a bit ... and brand-building would be right up at the top.

Oh, I also know a bit about 'an audit' too

 

Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1

"Does anyone recall WDW advertising in the 70s and 80s before Michael Eisner came to Disney? Not likely because WDW simply didn't do massive national or international ad campaigns. And yet, in a 'less connected' era (no 865 cable channels, no Internet, no smart phones and iPads) Disney equaled quality and people came by the millions from every corner of the globe.

They somehow knew the place existed.

They somehow knew what it was about and what it meant."



Very, VERY true!

I remember starting at my first job in 1988 and talking with a woman who had been to WDW a few years before. Now remember, this was 1988, in Perth, Western Australia - about AS FAR FROM ORLANDO, physically and from a "knowing what was there" perspective as you could get! No internet, no cable tv to spruke the parks. Yet she KNEW of WDW, she went and she told me(word of mouth)that she LOVED IT. Further, and this will back people like Spirit and Dave, this simple, clueless Australian woman told me words to this effect,

"I think adults would appreciate it more than children because adults would understand what went into the place."

Nothing about corporate synergy or toons everywhere. Just an appreciation of a sophisticated place that adults could enjoy.


WDW circa 1985.

Sounds like a classy place, doesn't it?

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<If you want to get anywhere in the company, then you can't be passionate about the company or you have to be in the closet about it.>>

<<How sad. And this might be very well the reason why their social media strategy appears to be so clueless. If the people in power have no idea how to relate with fans it is no wonder they can't formulate a strategy on how to communicate and interact with them in a way that makes sense. So they set up a department to deal with something that is frowned upon by the rest of the company: passion for the company's product. And since this is something others don't want to touch, they let the social media department do what they want.>>

First, apologies to Bolna, as I meant to comment on this post and somehow missed it.

Indeed, the people in power have no idea how to truly relate to the fans. There certainly are exceptions in the executive ranks and with the creatives at WDI moreso.

Even D23, while I detest why it was created, has people (Zenia as the figurehead that is never seen or heard from excepted) who generally are quite passionate about the product ... and even if they support Disney's efforts in the fan community, they'll tell those same fans as soon as they come off the stage what they really think about many subjects.

But you'll never find a company that is afraid to ever admit it is wrong about anything ... and one that so closely guards its PR appearance, so controlling the message even laughably like the talking points for Potter and the Fantasyland project is best handled by
spreading that message through webmasters/bloggers/podcasters who are willing to be positive all the time.

It's a sort of sick symbiotic relationship between Social Media employees who are desperate to justify their existence and Disney site owners who are desperate to feel some sense of significance.

I think if you listen to the video from Duncan that I linked to, I think it very much backs up what we're both saying.

<<Actually, in the way it is being considered, it will.>>

<<Would it be in any way related to the extinct Explorers Club restaurant at DLP?>>

Good question. Don't think so. Think HKDL.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Damn.
Spirit is like a one man Woodward and Bernstein. We should try to get you a spot on 60 Minutes.>>

Ah ... no.

I'd much rather run CBS ... Leslie is getting tired with the little one at home.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<It has sickened me for a number of years. One of the reasons I adore LP is it is a relatively open forum with critiques and praise, and almost all of them are worthy. so many sites just pump propaganda that this new social media section pumps in to some mentally unstable folks that don't know how to edit down their 700 shots of construction walls, are speak praise on praise in hopes of getting invited on a cheap or free cruise.

It is wrong, hell, Disney's whole marketing strategy is. D23, the Momies, the manipulation of social media, it feels dirty and insidious. and a waste of money.>>

Yes, it certainly does -- and is.

But as much as I like to take shots at some of the online folks who are taking advantage, I can't fault them really. They are doing what Disney is allowing them to do. These people aren't looking to be under the radar (look at Mongello, loud and proud!) They are looking to be on the radar.

From a corporate standpoint, though, it is sheer lunacy. It would be like offering us all $1000 gift cards to take anonymous Disney research surveys. Who wouldn't do that?

The thing is, though, it doesn't grow a business. It's like a religious leader at the pulpit ... he/she owns the audience. This isn't missionaries trying to convert heathens (who say ... hate theme parks ... or toons ... or waiting in lines with people of varying degrees of hygiene).

<<Why are they not reaching out and showcasing to the hard to reach groups. Offering discounts to new parents on their first family vacation. really targetting the marketing?>>

I don't know. I am not head of WDW's marketing department. ... I do know it is Business 101 that you want to grow and expand your customer base. You do that by things such as you suggested (and I wouldn't suggest much here because you don't want to give TWDC free consulting)

Disney has inexplicably decided to use Social Media to reach out to an audience that is going to come and spend money regardless of much of anything (see WDW in the 2000-2010 Decade of Decline).

I'd love to have sat through the meetings and Power Points on how this will enrich the bottom line. And, more importantly, GROW THE BRAND! (which is all Burbank cares about anyway)

<<Instead we have a dark leech industry growing. Pin ebay sites, DVD sellers, cash for tours (British Frog, the ex cast member at DLP really gets up my nose), and the web sites that really do not show balance. The wonderful thing about LP is all the reviews are very balanced (and very credible). But I really wish Burbank would take more note.>>

I can guarantee you, and all those folks who are going to sleep comfortably in their FREE Grand Cali rooms tonight, that Burbank is indeed taking notice

 

Originally Posted By KevinYee

So much to comment on, and I'm extremely late to this cocktail party. I think I'll content myself with the observation that Spirit is, of course, correct in his observation that I have asked Disney to be included in their media list (did we talk about this on the phone, Spirit? I rather think we did). I've been covering this coast since 2002 but resisted asking until early 2010, since I felt I would be better paying my own way. But the tsunami of smaller sites suddenly reporting on Disney events starting last year made me wonder if I should be reporting on these events too.

Long story short: Disney replied back "we'll keep you in mind" and promptly never communicated with me again. In many ways, I'm honored and touched. It validates my independent reviews, I think, that they feel I'm not the appropriate audience for such events. At the same time, it's a bit vexing. It would be nice to have access to Imagineers and managers, in order to hear from the horse's mouth (so to speak) about Disney offerings.

 

Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1

I would consider THAT an honour, Kevin!

I have to say, it is great to see you posting here on this subject. We have emailed in the past, mainly regarding your trip(s) to Western Australia to visit a family member.

Also, as somebody who has been reading your articles for the better part of a decade now, you are one of those rare Disney reporters who can string a sentence together, while understanding the need to be entertaining.

Keep up the great work!

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<What a shock. Funny how when a thread like this gets lots of attention from prying eyes in all sorts of places (from apartments of bloggers that are so cluttered with Disney stuff they'd fit in on Hoarders to boardrooms in Burbank) suddenly posters who are either new or never have much to say suddenly appear.

I always chalk it up to coincidence ;-)>>

<<*hides my vast collection of universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens,and little bit of Disney stuff in the closet*>>

Don't worry, Figgy. There are a lot of Disney fanbois here ... that means they either have closets loaded with stuff just like you or they're in the closet or both!

<<I always read, just rarely post... Though going back to earlier, I am one of those rare mythological Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, and Disney Fans... who happens to run two websites with a friend on Central FLA parks... (one just for Busch Gardens) /disclosure>>

I have to ask, and if you don't want to answer online feel free to drop an email ... but have you had any luck with getting credentialed by Disney?

If not, then it would really seem that Disney just plays games and picks and chooses people based on whims of the people running its Social Media Dept. ... Remember, payola.

You already have two big strikes against you by being an unabashed (and you should be) fan of UNI and SW parks. Almost universally, Disney seems to go after those who focus on the Mouse and pretend that they don't have competition (folks like Mongello and that NY podcaster whose name escapes me who used to be on MAGIC and hates my 'buddy' Merfie etc). I can only think of a few exceptions to this.

The thing is ... WDW doesn't have to play fair with online folks, so they don't. And it's going to backfire. It already has.

People whine and complain. I am sure many in O-Town would have loved flights out to Anaheim, free hotel for 4-5 nights, tickets, meals, private party invites and swag this weekend. People feel empowered when they have a credential around their neck.

No one in the new Social Media universe is out to truly 'cover' WDW. It is a total and utter joke when online folks claim they do. They cover it in a narrow pixie dusted sense.

To cover Da World would again require someone like Al Lutz or someone with a real journalism background and the financial resources as well. And they would get ZERO cooperation from WDW too. They wouldn't have been able to stick a mic in Bob Iger's face at the Star Tours opening because they wouldn't have been invited.

Covering WDW ... truly ... in a fair and balanced way and not simply being a de facto PR branch ... would require covering all the bad things from deaths to safety issues to transportation and infrastructure issues to food quality to park cleanliness in a way that NOT ONE individual or website does.

People really want to know the good, the bad and the ugly ... Disney used to be OK with that because they knew that the good FAR, FAR outweighed any of the other ... clearly, well ... they no longer have that confidence.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Kevin ... nice to see you wade in here tonight (that could be a Miami Heat reference since Wade and the guys blew a huge 4th qter lead and lost Game 2) ... I really have a whole lot more to say (naturally ... you DO know me!) ... but will have to wait until tomorrow or the weekend.

But I do hope you continue to contribute to our conversation here ... it's been interesting and I have a bit more than a sneaking suspicion that it will be getting even better.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

Admit it Spirit... we're dinosaurs. People don't read newspapers or magazines anymore. The "prime audience" doesn't even watch TV much anymore. And God knows, we don't talk with our next-door neighbor over the back fence anymore. How is Disney to reach today's customers better than through Social Media?

They can't control it anymore... Disney has what is really a pretty darned good website for WDW. And I never spend time there. I spend it here. They have to rely on their uber-fans to spread the word. Why do I hang out here where there are so few uber-fans? Because I'm a glutton for punishment. Being a Disney apologist AND a moderate on LP is like being in masochist heaven. LOL

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

Being a Disney apologist AND a moderate on LP is like being in masochist heaven

--- at least there is company in this section for us..although I don't think either you nor I are apologists. To the negative nellie's yeah we likely are, but not otherwise.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<I think if you listen to the video from Duncan that I linked to, I think it very much backs up what we're both saying.>>

The video is just creepy... and it has a major logical flaw. It claims to be about a problem and a solution for said problem. But the solution just isn't one.

He identifies the problem that with new media you only see what you want to see (there is some truth in that). So for Disney that is a problem because it means that people who aren't actively trying to see Disney won't see it. So far it still makes sense.

But then he goes on to say that the solution is to engage the fans and communicate with them. How is this going to get those people interested in Disney who at the moment are not aware of Disney????? This just does not make any sense at all! He claims that the moms' panel has been convincing a lot of people to take their first trips. I can see that to a certain extent, but only if they are already thinking about a trip and then start searching the internet for more information about whether they want to go. How else would they ever get to ask those moms any questions? Communicating with fans or even the moms panel does not get the message out to those who don't think about going to WDW. How can they not see that?

And if they think that those fans will then convince others - well, there is a thread here at the moment called "Your are going where? Again?" which is just about the sentiment that those who aren't thinking about a Disney vacation consider fans to be rather crazy. I don't think that those who are distant to your product can be convinced to have a closer look by people they think are crazy (not saying all fans are, just that this is the perception people might have).

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<But then he goes on to say that the solution is to engage the fans and communicate with them. How is this going to get those people interested in Disney who at the moment are not aware of Disney????>>

I think it would be safe to say that at the present time there is absolutely no one in the developed world that is not aware of Disney and what it has to offer.

Demographics are working against them... both age-wise and income-wise, there will be fewer and fewer people who are aware of Disney that will choose to go on a Disney vacation for the first time. So who is their best market? Make regular repeat customers out of those who already love the place. If they can get a fair percentage of those who go to WDW every-other year to go EVERY year, they will have been enormously successful.

That is the whole idea behind DVC. They are not trying to make a killing in the real-estate market. If so they would have stopped building five years ago. They are trying to build an extremely loyal base of customers who will continue to come to WDW EVERY YEAR for the next 20 years! DVC makes it so your WDW vacation will likely be less out of pocket expense than any other vacation destination. So if you liked WDW enough to buy DVC in the first place, WHERE are you going to go this year? DUH!

Spirit, you are immensely knowledgeable, but I think you have never "gotten it" when it comes to DVC and likewise do not "get it" when it comes to social media. I know you hate it. It means that some uneducated social media “whore” can replace a pro like you. Welcome to the Internet in 2011.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<I think it would be safe to say that at the present time there is absolutely no one in the developed world that is not aware of Disney and what it has to offer.>>

If you had said in the US I would not have argued it, but I can assure you that a lot of people in Germany have no idea that WDW even exists.

And my point wasn't that people don't know about WDW, I was just quoting the video and the problem that is identified there. I think it isn't meant about pure knowledge but more about interest.

<<So who is their best market? Make regular repeat customers out of those who already love the place.>>

I am not saying that growing a loyal customer base is something they should not do. However, I think WDW needs so many visitors annually that they can't rely only on repeat customers.

 

Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

>>>Make regular repeat customers out of those who already love the place. If they can get a fair percentage of those who go to WDW every-other year to go EVERY year, they will have been enormously successful.<<<

With DVC, I agree, and I also agree it is a great strategy. Business 101 teaches you that the healthiest business model is 80% repeat customer, 20% new name sales.

However, they have done everything to chase us long time fans away - cutting maintanence and live non rubberhead entertainment, cutting hours, getting rid of unique merchandise that while we might buy on impulse, we might save for the next trip (spending 10 times more than if buy junk), trimming down menues to 4 or 5 entrees, the same you can get in multiple restaurants (rather than making it unique). In the case of the swamps and the tragic kingdom - keeping the same parades for over a decade, and all of them were of a lesser quality than the other Disney resorts when they debut. Offering Travel Lodge quality service in the hotels at Ritz Carlton prices. Hotels like Animal Kingdom Lodge not having any room service options in the middle of the night (yet I can get that level of service in a Holiday Inn). Transport that is woefully inadequate when Walt Disney used to be a leader in pushing the frontier of public transport options in the US.

If they rectified those options, I would have spent far more money with the mouse, but after my lousy visit 5 years ago, I really have no appetite to return to WDW (unless they sort this out). The woefully inadequate entertainment in Paris this year, coupled with everything in refurb due to the neglect started by Jay Rasulo, has meant a lot of the Disneyland Paris faithful have been postponing their trips this year too (I would have thought if all the park were under tarps they would at least put on some decent entertainment).

California benefits from a very active local fan base, so we are seeing some improvements there (though the redo of the Pier and all the tooning of the park is of little interest to my family, it seems to be causing a stir).

But it is sad, when the only Disney location that has me wanting to save my pennies to travel is in Chiba, run by OLC.

When the cost of flights from Europe to Tokyo are only 4% more than flights to Orlando or Anaheim, I think I will be spending Yen instead of dollars. Though I know I am in the minority, as in the UK, a number of Disney fans won't even go to Paris as they are Francophobes. So they go to the Tragic Kingdom thinking that it is the epitome, in bliss in their ignorance. And let's face it, most of those make up the bigger demo for the Mouse. They are not interesting in esteemed buddies like Spirit, or Bob, or Kevin, or me. They want to pull in the folks who wish they had more vacations and bought into dvc. Or the faithful that default to WDW without thinking about the other options, or the bloggers who walk around WDW taking millions of photos, or the peeps that dream about moving to Orlando (desite the weather, crime and poverty outside the berms), or the tour guides, or the DVDers, the pin traders and plush toy photographers.

Why deliver the best (at a cost) when the masses are addicted to the lesser quality opiate? Why hire union skilled entertainers when a college kid in rubber gets them excited (and no, I am not talking about the members clubs of London or Amsterdam, even though they are cheaper).

why pay attention to what the competition are doing. even a very respected friend of mine that works with the mouse has admitted not watching Dream Works animation or visiting non Disney parks. Sorry, Kung Fu Panda, How to Train Your Dragon, and Despicable Me were far more entertaining to me than any animation Disney or Pixar have produced in years. The entertainment of the German main theme parks dwarf the live entertainment of Disney (as do the quality of theme in their hotels). The Disney parks of today except Anaheim, bear very little in common with the spirit of Tivoli Gardens which really started the parks. In fact I am at the point where I rather go to Tivoli than WDW. And of course Universal, while having the coup of the century for getting Harry Potter, there is no quibbling that the quality of detail is amazing. I have had friends return from Otown citing it as a highlight when they are not even fans.

So the bottom line is this. Disney will get my money if they innovate (and I am not talking about Next Gen interactivity here - that don't impress me much, I can do those sort of things at home), if they provide the hallmark quality and cleanliness and entertainment that hooked my in years ago. High quality restaurants and hotels.

The problem is, WDW in particular pulls in a lot of people who know no better. People who the only hotels they have ever stayed in are WDW. In some cases, folks that think the Olive Garden or Tgi Fridays are quality eateries. When Eisner was at the helm, he tried to offer something for everyone. Now, it is the walmart crowd. No thanks.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

Frankly Dave, I think WDW turned you off so badly five years ago that there is NOTHING that could get you back. So why should they try? WDW certainly has its faults, but I think you also judge it way too harshly. You blame WDW for things it obviously has no control over... its location, the heat and the humidity. That I can guarantee you has not changed over the years.

You just let one bad experience make that a far bigger thing in your mind than it had apparently been before. Can't say that I blame you... I would never CONSIDER visiting WDW any months other than November - March. I do have to tell you from personal experience though... rain and cold weather during December in Anaheim can make touring DL just as unpleasant as touring WDW during August.

If I had the Themepark options available to me that you have in Europe, I would probably choose non-Disney entertainment also. But I don’t. Although if you would ever like to pay my way across the pond, I would be more than happy to accompany your family on a European vacation. ☺

As for Universal, yes… the Florida Park has really advanced in the past few years. But prior to that it was really nowhere equal to WDW. Yes, the Studios has been a great park and I have always enjoyed it. It certainly beat MGM/Disney Studios, but never WDW in its totality. Previously IOA seemed to me primarily a park full of coasters and you-will-get soaked rides. The other members of my family have NEVER liked those so we never tried it. I’m afraid even now the only interest in IOA would be the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and would we really want to spend that much money to be part of a massive crowd trying to make its way through a relatively small “land”?

Yes, WDW could certainly be better. But I can’t write it off quite as easily as you apparently can.

 

Originally Posted By MousDad

I think Kevin Yee just provided all the validation that anyone ever needs that everything that Spirit is saying is completely true.

Of course you will never be allowed to graduate to whoredom, Kevin. You've written too much truth in your time.

 

Originally Posted By KevinYee

Bob, I recall that email exchange about Australia! My relative is back from there - he couldn't land a job after all (turns out the mining industry tends not to hire from the outside).

Back to Disney: I think RoadTrip is right that the strategy going forward is to lure/trap folks into making WDW their must-be vacation every year (since they bought DVC and continue to owe money on it, they might as well). That marks a shift from new customers to returning ones, at least partly.

The only upside is, repeat customers will more readily notice, oh I don't know, broken yetis and black Thunder Mountain tarps. Or lame Carousel of Progress signs. But hey, they finally fixed that laundry room door at the Beach Club, Spirit!

 

Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1

Declining by degrees, huh?