WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

Lol Bob, spot on (even though I very much resemble that characture when I am in the parks). Lol

RT - I think you missed so of my points. One of the reasons I am really pissed off with WDW is they offer it up as their flagship when the quality is much worse than the other Disney resorts around the globe (sadly all the resorts have been going down hill over the years, but WDW the most).

But social media has poisoned the water. I point these things out in the silly hope that the folks at Disney will listen, take note, and do something about it. I also post, not to chase off the dusters I sadly have, but in the hopes that people will notice, stand up and also comment (thereby bringing about a change). I do it because I care. Lord knows I have spent too much time on Disney forums than is good for one's sanity, relationships, or health - lol.

Maybe I should move on. But sadly, that stupid passion that was instilled in me in my childhood, and the amazing things Disney do, brings me back....grrrrr. Addiction is a terrible thing. (BTW - our trip to WDW was Nov/December, and I would probably not be as bitter if I did not experience DLP and DL within a year of visiting WDW and seeing how much better both were doing!!!!!).

But Social Media is a disease, it is a form of propaganda, and you know what, I hope it bites them on the butt. The more people who are not mega fans I hear returning who felt WDW was the weakest link in their Orlando vaction, or DLP was a real let down. I hope Disney listen, and do not put down the diminished revenues due to the economy. Now it does not cover everyone, but DLP's revenues are down this year. They are blaming the economy, and while that is a part of the equation, I know dozens of folks who currently are skipping their annual trip to DLP because they do not want to be there when everything is under tarps for refurb (due to the decade of neglect thanks to bozo Rasulo and those who followed - at least George K sorted out the budgets and projects before going to California) or while the entertainment stinks (and this year it does - worst year ever).

In the meantime, WDW gets the higher profile Star Tours opening despite the fact it opened in California yesterday without celebs, without Lucas, without idiot Iger.....and the social media machine is fawning over it like it was a triumph. It smells fishy to me.

But go ahead and ignore this post, most do, now excuse me while I go to pixie dust rehab.

 

Originally Posted By SpokkerJones

"The population will become increasingly Hispanic with many families having quite a few children and low incomes."

Disneyland is like Mexico City these days. I've heard that remark in the form of a complaint on some roller coaster forum.

I don't know about the Mexicans in Florida, but Anaheim (excluding Anaheim Hills) is heavily Latino and solidly middle-class.

 

Originally Posted By SpokkerJones

Speaking of that roller coaster forum, all the roller coaster nerds who complained about too many brown people at Disneyland sounded like Eric Cartman when he sang, "Why are all these minoritieeeeees... in my waterparrrrrrrk!"

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1UEDulwWkY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...EDulwWkY</a>

 

Originally Posted By KevinYee

Spokker, another good observation.

Disneyland has been trending brown for a decade now, while WDW is still solidly a white (and middle class or higher) destination.

How that observation meshes with the marketing, planning, and execution of the parks is another topic, but certainly food for thought.

 

Originally Posted By KevinYee

"Brown", I should point out, means in this context "non-white Hispanic and African American"

(though I might guess mostly Hispanic in the case of Disneyland?)

 

Originally Posted By SpokkerJones

As always, off-topic discussion rules the day.

By the way, how are the Asians doing at Disneyland/World? They made a strong showing in the recent census.

 

Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub

Another point of view is Disney offers us a unique opportunity to belong to a multicultural world. We are all target groups for Disney classified according to race, origin country, age, sexuality ,etc that can be visited by all forms of communication. The focus might be online media because it is a groundswell movement and any corporation dare not ignore this for future survival.At this point in time we are in the learning stage and experimenting. It is painful but it will change according to the commercial success and viability.

I also want to add that observing and interacting with multi-cultural groups within the "Disney"- World should be embraced by all that visit this Happy Place...It is the one place that gives me hope for a Future World of Peace.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>By the way, how are the Asians doing at Disneyland/World? They made a strong showing in the recent census.<<<<


I thought I was in Tokyo Disneyland while waiting for Spaceship Earth, in December.

 

Originally Posted By SpokkerJones

Haha.

I always did find those remarks funny more than anything else. "I was at X and I thought I was in Mexico City/Tokyo/Africa!" As if America wasn't this melting pot/salad bowl/whatever.

It would surprise me to be around a lot of Mexicans in Japan. It would surprise me to see a lot of Asians in South Africa.

It does not surprise me to be around a lot of any type of person in the United States, haha. I thought that was the whole idea.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

"This doesn't begin to address the more sinister aspects of what some are calling 21st century advertising, but certainly feels more like propaganda."

<<On the Internet we see traditional ads but it's also alarming when something we thought was genuine turns out to be an orchestrated and scripted display of propaganda, and it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference.

Then there's the social networking stuff.

When companies like Disney start their official blogs and social network ventures, it's almost as if participants are paying someone to be their friend. And as long as you feed them presents (in this case cash) the company will keep telling you what you want to hear.>>

There are so many directions I could go with this point ... on one hand you have bloggers/podcasters/webmasters believing they are 'friends' of TWDC or at least its Social Media reps because of the biased 'coverage' they are providing. Then, you have the company planting messages/talking points on sites that are supposed to be 'independent' ... after all, if Fanboi X (not you, Mr. X) or Mommy Blogger Y or Podcaster Z is in turn 'my friend' then I want to believe ... I must believe that what they are presenting is an actual, unbiased view. If they say everything is MAGICal at WDW, then clearly it must be because they aren't being paid for their coverage, right? ;-)

<<In a way, this is very similar to what we would traditionally call prostitution. The johns in this case are the fans.>>

But there's the rub. The fans who read those sites and give them hits, which they then use to justify their existence to Disney Social Media, are buying what's being pimped.

And the issue is, more and more, that they are buying a distorted image filtered and delivered through subversive means.

<<I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal is to take eyes away from the more objective and critical sites that cover Disney and focus them solely on the official blogs and Twitter feeds and other PR-safe areas.>>

BINGO!!!

That's what separates marketing from propaganda.

What you now see on most sites (again, this one would be an exception ... one of a few ...( Miceage is clearly another) is simply pure propaganda.

By Disney. From Disney. For Disney.

<<It's no surprise that Kevin Yee didn't get media access. His audience is what they are trying to diminish with their blogs and social networking efforts.>>

That's absolutely the case. Disney with its Social Media efforts (everything from D23 to the Disney Parks Blog) is looking to fragment/splinter the online community. Sites like this don't get the traffic they once did on message boards because people have been pulled away and tend to gravitate to smaller groups where they all agree on everything. For now they agree, anyhow. Take 10 ex-LPers who simply want to discuss what resort they've booked for their next five MAGICal WDW vacations and move them to FB or Twitter ... or the next novelty in Social Media.

There may be more Disney online sites than ever, but they're as homogenized as the park bags or cocktail menus being used at Disney Parks.

It's not a coincidence, that's their strategy. Damn the consequences.

Make no mistake, though, Burbank doesn't pay attention to other, more MAGICal sites because it doesn't need to. When you know you control the message, there's no real need to watch fanbois debate when The Hulk's new meet-greet-and-grope will be appearing at EPCOT or why it's perfectly OK that in the resort's 40th anniversary year, absolutely nothing of substance is opening anywhere.

What's happening here (and has for years) is generally more adult, more big picture ... hell, more corporate ... and TWDC takes notice of it. That's also why what's left of real media is reading right along with the execs., who are wondering where this is all going to end up. ... Both the thread and WDW Co's anything goes Social Media Dept's efforts.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<I think it speaks volumes that Kevin Yee did not get any access from Disney as he wrote a few posts ago.

And Duncan Wardle sounded quite proud when he stated: "For every one negative comment about a Disney theme park experience posted in the blogosphere, 18 people came to our defence without us lifting a finger." And that's what Disney's strategy is about: getting that number even higher.

So I don't think social media will turn against them anytime soon. They are trying their best to train their baby tiger to prevent it becoming aggressive once it grows up - but perhaps you are right and they aren't as safe as they think they are...>>

But understand, Bolna, is isn't a baby tiger, it's a pack of hyenas and they've already (in spots, to be fair) turned against the Mouse in some ways ... and The Mouse has done likewise.

I know I've mentioned it here, but not in this thread, that the Disney Dream debut was one of the biggest experiments with Social Media in TWDC's history. Almost anyone who could prove they blogged one time about a meal at Cosmic Ray's got a free two-night preview cruise, swag and the coveted credential.

So ... everyone in the Twitterverse (hee, hee) and the Blogosphere should have been happy beyond all MAGICal belief, right?

Um ... nope.

Because Disney used a caste system (not cast) to determine who got what ... in terms of free flights, free (or almost free) nights at WDW, what resort, tickets, meals etc ... now, this is how Disney always has run its media junkets/events.

Someone may get a flight in from Seattle and six nights at the GF, while someone from NYC has to pay for their flight and gets an overnight at the Poly, while someone else gets the Pop etc ... Some can bring family, some can't. Some wind up with thousands of dollars in swag, while others just the basic token items.

But if you are a real reporter/writer/editor/journalist etc, you don't really complain about it. That just goes with the territory.

Now ... dealing with the 'uneducated media whores' (to quote Trippy) is a whole new world to Disney and it can be scary enough to send Genie back into his lamp for another thousand years. Before anyone even made it to Port Canaveral, the Twitterverse had exploded with people whining about how Disney was treating them vs. other sites in a very personal manner and wondering why some sites had what they felt was 'preferential treatment' ... and how their site gets XXX number more hits a day ... on and on ... yada, yada, yada.

Social Media is what many liken to being the modern version of word of mouth. Consider this, if your 'neighbor' or 'friend' told you what a great experience the Disney Dream was and all of the ways it was perfect for you and your family, would it carry weight? Now, what if that neighbor or friend told you upfront that everything they were about to tell you about the Disney Dream was based on the compensation they had received from the WDW Co.?

Make a difference ...?

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<In this future, we'll be pining for the good old days when fandom meant something. If this becomes widespread, you won't know who is genuine about their praise and who isn't. When we gush about things we enjoy, wouldn't we want it to mean something? >>

Dead on.

See post 471 above

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<But social media has poisoned the water. I point these things out in the silly hope that the folks at Disney will listen, take note, and do something about it. I also post, not to chase off the dusters I sadly have, but in the hopes that people will notice, stand up and also comment (thereby bringing about a change). >>

Ah, my friend, Social Media at Disney exists for the absolute opposite purpose. Just like Duncan Wardle so uneloquently framed it in that video. While Al Lutz used his online site and presence to push for changes at DLR when the place was literally crumbling and bad management led to people actually dying or being injured at the resort, Social Media now has a whole new meaning.

Much more Orwellian ... much scarier.

It now exists in corporate fashion to squelch discussions such as ... well, this. Or to minimize them with a cacophony of fanboi/mommy/bored housewives sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling 'we can't hear you ... we can't hear you' as a Disney publicist slips them a special LE pin.

True social media has existed since the 1990s ... and one could argue that it covered WDW (and the company) starting with those newsgroups where viciousness was often the word of the day. Social Media existed in the form of sites that were birthed from them ... and they all were truly independent voices.

Often those sites praised Disney and loved what the company was doing. But often times ... well, anyone recall the 'Promote Paul Pressler' campaign? What about 'Save Disney'?

These days, it's much tougher to elicit change. Even someone known as the biggest Disney basher, Al himself, has softened because there are a lot of positives at his home resort.

And, again, Disney almost feels like it has no responsibility to answer anyone's criticisms, no matter how legit or how much/loyal of a customer they've been. They'll just let the mindless fanbois blather on and shout out the intelligent voices.

<<But Social Media is a disease, it is a form of propaganda, and you know what, I hope it bites them on the butt. The more people who are not mega fans I hear returning who felt WDW was the weakest link in their Orlando vaction, or DLP was a real let down. I hope Disney listen, and do not put down the diminished revenues due to the economy. >>

They have and will continue to use the economy as an excuse where it is convenient.

Yet, while they spend millions of dollars currying favor with fans they already own, all the MBAs and consultants in their stable can't give a legit hypothesis as to how many guests visit and never return or bash the place to countless friends and neighbors.

They have NO CLUE how much money they are turning away/losing.

For every excuse of 'they're newbies they don't know any better' my years of personal observations have told me something far different: and that's that many of these supposedly bumpkin guests come to WDW and can't believe (after the hype) how poorly maintained things are, how many CMs are so less than MAGICal, how inconvenient, antiquated and ghetto the transport system is, how expensive and lousy much of the food options are etc ... I have heard this for over a decade now. In queues. In monorail cars. On benches waiting to get in for a meal. In jacuzzis ... I am a trained observer. And in my observations, backed by what I hear from folks in the company, Disney hasn't got a clue how much business it is losing from failing to deliver the product it advertises.

<<In the meantime, WDW gets the higher profile Star Tours opening despite the fact it opened in California yesterday without celebs, without Lucas, without idiot Iger.....and the social media machine is fawning over it like it was a triumph. It smells fishy to me.

But go ahead and ignore this post, most do, now excuse me while I go to pixie dust rehab.>>

While rehab might do you good, I like the version of Dave that walks around with a pixie dusted tiara hanging over his head ... and cartoon animals perched on/near him ready to burst into song at any time.

And I try not to ignore your posts (or Pierce's because I know how you two long to be my favorite!)

WDW got the higher profile opening as a favor to TDO since DLR has so much going on (as usual) in 2011 and WDW has absolutely nothing beyond this redo of ST.

Just this summer, DLR has ST 2.0, Mermaid, Soundsational, new Blue Sky AND Disney Gallery exhibits, Goofy's Sky School (OK, we know this sucks, but still ...) a whole newly themed, expanded PP set of eateries, WoC enhancements (when it just opened a year ago) ... and that's leaving out DD getting new shops and DLH getting new dining and drinking establishments.

WDW is desperate for any/all attention ... and getting back to square one, that's where the Social Media folks come in ... they'll play up a new ODV cart or a new set of retro tees or a newly located meet-greet-and-grope because they want as much loving from Duncan and the Celebration Place gang as they can get.

Can't you feel the love?

 

Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub

I just realized that the power of "pleasing Disney" or staying on their good side does infiltrate one's mind. I rarely post my harshest most critical thoughts online or at City Hall because I feel Disney monitors everything! I did post a harsh trip report once and used to go to City Hall to leave a compliment or a criticism. Then I realized they just did not care anymore about almost anything or everything. This does not necessarily pertain to Corp Disney. I get that vibe everywhere. Anything to get your money and then not gonna worry since you have probably agreed to a monthly payment plan that we can keep increasing without you even noticing.I am surprised everybody does not have annual passes for entertainment; at the local movie theatre for instance. Once you have pre-paid for the yearly benefit you tend to spend more money on snack foods and souvenirs etc...and do you really want to register as a loyal customer everywhere to get those weekly discounts and reward points? At first those membership clubs were free . Now they charge a yearly fee that usually automatically renews itself knowing you will lose track! It really is out of control !

 

Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub

I also think the corporations realized the power of money tenfold when celebrities with criminal records could make more money. It increases their popularity so now the corp image is all about greed and more money and more power. Nothing seems to tarnish an image. Nobody needs to be squeaky clean not even a rat.

 

Originally Posted By SpokkerJones

"Much more Orwellian ... much scarier."

Orwellian is a term commonly used for government, but it also applies to the corporate world as well. People are now more afraid of Big Business than Big Brother.

<a href="http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/study-finds-internet-users-wary-of-corporate-snooping/" target="_blank">http://www.digitaltrends.com/m...nooping/</a>

"The tenth annual study in the Digital Future Project from USC’s Annenberg School of Communication & Journalism finds that almost half of Internet-using Americans aged 16 or over are concerned about businesses tracking what they do online—however, in comparison, only 38 percent are concerned about the government tracking their online activities."

Also, remember when I said that Twitter was basically a misinformation generator? It seems like this belief is widespread.

"Respondents also said they put little faith in the accuracy or reliability of information from social networking services: 51 percent said little or none of the information on social networking sites could be trusted."

Also, do you think this might be correlated with big companies getting on Twitter and Facebook, and the rise of viral marketing? I think people are becoming sick of it.

 

Originally Posted By skinnerbox

<<"Respondents also said they put little faith in the accuracy or reliability of information from social networking services: 51 percent said little or none of the information on social networking sites could be trusted.">>

Boy howdy! My next door neighbor is a shining example of how to make social media lie for you.

She has two Facebook pages, one for her real identity as a 35-year-old corporate director of training, and another for her fake identity as a 25-year-old medical marijuana advocate and web site administrator. Everything about the fake identity is false, except the first name and where she lives. None of the friends she's made with the fake identity know about her real life. How she manages to juggle both and keep her very conservative corporate masters in the dark about her medical marijuana side business is beyond me.

Never, ever believe what someone posts in Facebook or on Twitter as being gospel, unless you personally know them. And even then, they'd still be suspect.

 

Originally Posted By figment1986

Thinking about social media, it appears to me it is mostly the younger generation (mine and younger) who love it, and even use it more than message boards at times, then they have their blogs that they link to in their tweets... It's weird as I was at a press event at Busch Gardens and had to explain the site as a "blog about Busch gardens" when we predated blogs by quite a few years... and yet turned that way to make it easier to update and convenient for the larger population of viewers to use...

Another note, Disney appears to be trying to be low on allowing bloggers who have any neutral or more importantly negative opinions on Disney like some of us have posted before... In the case of my site we're not covering enough Disney I guess... or we're not covering enough positive Disney to be that important to them... though I do have an AP which is paid for to Uni, SeaWorld Parks and Disney... so it's not like I need the comp admission ever... since they are usually only good that day. (Like a good web reporter I attempt to list everything I get comped... other than flash drives)

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

Thinking about the difference between propaganda and marketing (and I would say the border between these two is rather fluent), the main difference might be that propaganda does focus on emotion instead of a real message.

This reminded me of the cigarette commercials which you can still see in cinemas in Germany. One of the very last places for tobacco advertising is in cinemas (at movies starting after 8pm). But they are not allowed to show the product. So those commercials are all about creating an emotional atmosphere to be connected with the brand. They are absolutely pointless, but then they are trying to sell a product which does not really have very much good to be said about.

And in a certain way they are very similar to the modern Disney Park commercials which just focus on smiling kids: no message, no content, no information - just emotion.

Once people realise that the emotion is just artificial (and I don't want to imply that Disney Parks are as bad a product as cigarettes, but there are some quality issues) and not really justified, it will really damage the brand that relied on the emotion without providing the content.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<Social Media is what many liken to being the modern version of word of mouth. Consider this, if your 'neighbor' or 'friend' told you what a great experience the Disney Dream was and all of the ways it was perfect for you and your family, would it carry weight? Now, what if that neighbor or friend told you upfront that everything they were about to tell you about the Disney Dream was based on the compensation they had received from the WDW Co.?>>

If I am told upfront that the message has been paid for I - as most people, I would guess - would be rather critical and just view the message as any other advertisement. But the thing with social media is a bit more sneaky. Most blogs will tell you: I got this for free but I would not recommend it unless I really thought it was a good product. I am sure most bloggers believe that and there might be a lot who really are living up to their own standards. But I am sure this is the point where a lot of people aren't skeptical anymore, they just believe this blanket statement. While there is of course reason to be skeptical: The question of value for money is something that is one of the deciding factors on where to spend your money. And how can this factor ever be assessed by someone who did not pay any money for it. My neighbour who went to WDW and came back and told me what a great vacation they had, it was expensive, but he felt it was really worth the money, can give me a feeling about whether I want to spend the money. Someone who got a free trip can't. Which is, btw, also one of my criticisms of travel journalism.

But it might even go a bit further. Just as you mentioned that there was quite a bit of envy amongst the social media that was invited. Don't you think that this feeling would also be amongst others? Who likes to be told that other people get a lot of free stuff without any good reason? I find it rather off-putting. Not because I think I should get free stuff, but because those free trips are paid for with the money Disney makes from the trips I pay for. Taking the Dream launch as an example, there are some websites which I expected to be invited and I really enjoy the coverage they offer which is often much more detailed than real media (and adding the international component for me, might not even be accessible to me). But I was quite shocked to see who else was invited, and I am sure that I only saw the tip of the iceberg. I think this is a potential danger which Disney does not seem to be aware of.

And it also applies to the incident that originally started this thread: the sign up for the Star Tours II special event. It might be that those people were really just sitting in front of their computers refreshing the Disney Parks Blog every 5 minutes hoping that something interesting might come along. But there remains the suspicion that they knew that this would be the day when that behaviour would lead to great results. Won't events like these lead other fans to become disillusioned since it looks like fan events become closed events only accessible for happy bloggers?