WDW Social 'Media' and Conspiracy

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>>What is the ROI that TWDC receives by spending massive amounts of capital on 'special' fan bloggers/podcasters/webmasters with giveaways and by allowing some to steal/appropriate Disney content on their sites and by selling products.<<

<<If this is the question that sticks in your craw, then it's unlikely you will ever get a satisfying answer. For starters, there's too many mutual exclusives within it. It is also the case that some of this is proprietary, something we will never know, as in: "...not one person has appeared here to show how WDW Co.'s Social Media machine has monetized this in any way. Nor that they even can or ever will." Yup. Although never can or never will is more like it.>>

Well, TWDC is a publicly traded corporation and its shareholders (myself among them) would be very interested in just what (if any) monetary gain Disney has gotten from throwing mass quantities of money at Social Media. ... Proprietary ... where did I hear that term before? Oh yeah, that was Disney allowing select people to steal/borrow its IP.

<<It is also unreasonable to demand that anybody from the Walt Disney Company come here and engage us in this conversation. Aside from anything else, it seems most likely that they are not allowed to do this. Consider the ramifications, particularly in this litigious age.>>

If you set up a department specifically to foster close ties with your most loyal customer base, then why wouldn't you show up here (missing the point, they're here anyway ... just silent lurkers) and communicate with them? And if you're afraid you can't handle some of the more educated Spirits here, then why not address the subject on your own official site where you control the message 100% (yes, even the negative comments that are allowed to stand are allowed for a reason)? What exactly are you being paid for?

The issues raised on this thread (and others) aren't going to go away.

As for legal action, Disney is in a quagmire of potential litigation due to its handling of Social Media and fan sites. Some people get freebies, some don't. Some are allowed to steal (so long as they spin for the company), some are shutdown. Some people engage in commercial activity on WDW Co property, while others get shutdown etc ... you don't think there's going to be legal action?

<<This has been a fascinating topic, I have heard a lot of different opinions and gleaned some new facts (some disturbing, it is true). But I really do not expect that hard answers will result from what has proven to be a most interesting conversation.>>

I don't know how we're supposed to come to answers when Disney refuses to acknowledge the gorilla in the room ... but it has been interesting ... and I intend to enjoy ... until I can hop on a plane for Alaska (yes, no Disney Parks, shocking!) and disappear for a few weeks!

 

Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt

This thread lacks a Spirited Dalmatian!!

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

Spirit going to see the Palin ? hahahah

 

Originally Posted By Scutr

Oh heck, when was the last time Palin was in Alaska? She's still riding around on her Magical Mystery Tour bus rewriting history.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Not only did I miss a dalmatians post, but I was remiss in not mentioning yet another example of why Disney plays favorites with online media in a way they could never get away with when dealing with traditional media.

Any of you catch Kevin Yee's column today on Miceage?

The thrust of it was on how pathetic Splash Mountain's show condition is (even after being closed for the entire month of January for a 'rehab') ... Kevin counted 30 AA's that were inoperable or not working correctly (as a comparison in TDL in December, I failed to see one figure in anything less than perfect operating condition).

This on the heels of the latest round of price increases.

Now, if Jason Garcia writes the same thing Kevin just did, well, Disney is screwed. They can't do a thing beyond suggesting to a friend or two at the paper that they do lot of advertising in the Sentinel, but that's as empty a threat as Ralph sending Alice to the moon (classice TV reference that no one under 35 would have a clue about, but they should).

But Disney doesn't ever have to credential Kevin, cooperate with his stories or even acknowledge he exists as a life form (althought they should as it is good business decision, long term). Hell, they could even ostensibly decide to harass him when he does his weekly ride a MK attraction group meet, coming up with some BS reason why they're causing a disturbance etc (I doubt they ever will now that it is posted here, but you have to understand that the Celebration Place Cabal isn't the most ethical group on Earth!)

See, Kevin didn't even take a single cheap shot at Disney (and again, they more than have it coming from him and the fan community that isn't addicted to pixie dust). He fairly and accurately reported on the pathetic show quality of the MK's last E-Ticket addition (again 1992, again the Fantasyland project will NOT add a single E-Ticket to the alleged No. 1 theme park in the world).

But he isn't working for the Sentinel or the NY Times or even The Villages Weekly (have no idea if this actually exists, but I'm sure they have some publication there). They are going to play hardball with him and anyone else that dares portray the Mouse in a less than MAGICal light ... and/or acknowledges Universal exists (and Kevin's other story was on the full ownership buyout by Comcast of UNI's O-Town resort).

You have to understand what's really at play here.

It's Disney trying to CONTROL as much of the talk about its product as it can.

Disney can't control Kevin, so he's of no use to them.

But the Spirit will always be with him!

And shame on Phil Holmes and Co for yet another glaring example of incredibly bad show in the MK. YOU should go work for Walmart, Phil ... really.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Oh, and if anyone would like to contact Phil (Holmes, VP of MK) directly after experiencing Splash Mountain or BTMRR ... or CBJ ... or any of the numerous attractions that are falling apart, let me know and I'll find a way to make sure you have his number (not sure whether the powers here want me to put his private confidential voicemail out there, although I see no reason not to).

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Ok, I had a read over lunch (much more interesting than the squabling of health reforms that are destined to take the Great out of Britain, but there you go).

while his cyncism and celebration of barbituates is a bit of a turn off, there is much truth spoken in this artical. The one part that really resonated with me was quite interesting coming from someone who is ambivolent about "Disneying". It resonated with what many of us mentally ill fans have been saying for years too:>>

I REALLY want to/intend to come back to the mentally ill/fan community issue at some point.

I was reminded of that again in the ticket price increase thread by the simple idea that Disney Parks were never meant (at least until 10-15 years ago) to be visited on a monthly or weekly (or sickeningly enough) daily basis that many mentally ill people use via APs as a substitute for living.

But it's late ... and I'd rather hold off for a bit.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

>>And there for me is the cruxt of the problem with modern Disney. Of course Social Media (with official persuasions) would never entertain such a notion. Quite facinating.<<

<<I liked his use of the word "yearning." If there ever is a word that describes the Disney condition, that hits the nail. The place was built by a guy who yearned for something, is full of stylized environments that yearn for a reality that doesn't exist, and is filled with masses who yearn to fill the place that Disney fills in both the individual and global psyche. Pretty good social commentary.>>

And while Walt yearned to create perfect escapist environments ... recreations of places that were never perfect or never existed ... yearned to control the park experience to such a high and detailed level of quality, the only thing Disney's Social Media yearns for is absolute control of the message.

I believe we call that propaganda, again ... but what do I know, I recently came back to the States from working in China again?

Do you think Thomas Smith is just full of ... um ... ah ... propaganda? ;-)

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<After reading this topic I do after wonder how the whole social media thing would affect the Disney guest who saves up for a few years to take his family down to WDW? Someone who wouldn't know a Mongello or the Moms Panel.>>

<<I think that is exactly the point the Spirit has made over and over again: Why spent money and resources on something which does not affect the majority of your customers at all. It will not bring you any new guests.>>

yep ... that's the point ... and now you can join me in making it over and over ... because it simply does NOT bring new guests.

But it does further dilute/divide and destroy online communities like this one where people freely communicate and, often, rip Mickey a new one.

And, make no mistake about it, that IS part of WDW's Social Media Dept's goal.

If this thread is any indication, then I'd say it's about as successful as Tomorrowland '98 was or DCA 1.0.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Dave said: <<But Bolna, it does dillute any negative messages, and most people who can afford to go to a Disney resort are likely to research in on line. And I think that is the point.

I do not agree with that strategy, but I understand why it would be adopted.>>

Bolna replied: <<Dave, to a certain extent, yes. But I don't think small websites and blogs would be among the first hits on google. And who ever ventures further than lets say page three if those three pages in the beginning already offer some rather informative sites like this one or allears etc. So is all this effort to try to control the online message to such a degree really worth it? >>

Yes. I 'vill agree 'vith da German over the British-American mix (my big UK Duffy Bear!!!) here ... those people who try and sell Social Media will try and convince you that first-timers will somehow wind up on these insignificant and obscure web sites instead.

Sorry, but if you're planning your first MAGICal WDW vacation and have spent $8,000 ... no one (and even high on pixie dust) will convince me that they'll wind up reading a thread on WDWMAGIC about a Hulk meet and greet coming to EPCOT and stay there ... or wind up on a site with pictures of the Fantasyland project construction walls ... or listening to a Loveable Lou podcast where his face appears covered with some brown substance near his nose. These sites are inconsequential when planning as a first-timer ... and they certainly are not the places where decisions to take a first trip ever get made by non-Disney nuts/fans. If you get stuck on one of those sites, it may in fact convince you to NEVER take a trip out of fear you'll become as crazy as what you are viewing/reading.

People will always go to Disneyworld.com ... and TripAdvisor.com ... and allears etc ... waaaaay before they ever hit one of these other sites.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<I 'vill agree 'vith da German >>

Hey, are you implying that I don't know my Vs from my Ws? I can assure you that I can pronounce both rather perfectly, even with a lovely British accent! ;-)

<<People will always go to Disneyworld.com ... and TripAdvisor.com ... and allears etc ... waaaaay before they ever hit one of these other sites.>>

Yes, those sites (and even a guidebook like the Unofficial Guide or the Passporter) will keep them busy enough. Last trip I traveled with my sister. It was her first trip to WDW and she was very excited and spent lots of time reading about the place. And those big sites did offer enough information for her. I think she spent several evenings on allears looking at the different resorts and trying to figure out where she would want to stay. I tried to send her links to stuff she might find interesting on more "obscure" websites, but very often she plain did not have the time. I think this is something we as fans tend to forget: how much knowledge about that place we have collected over the time. For a first timer the real basics are daunting enough.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Oh heck, when was the last time Palin was in Alaska? She's still riding around on her Magical Mystery Tour bus rewriting history.<<<<


This is my newest favorite post. +1!

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>(classice TV reference that no one under 35 would have a clue about, but they should)<<<


I do!!!!! lol


>>>Oh, and if anyone would like to contact Phil (Holmes, VP of MK) directly after experiencing Splash Mountain or BTMRR ... or CBJ ... or any of the numerous attractions that are falling apart, let me know and I'll find a way to make sure you have his number (not sure whether the powers here want me to put his private confidential voicemail out there, although I see no reason not to).<<<


If Splash ends up looking THAT bad for when I'm there, I'll go and give him a ring, and I'll probably visit City Hall.

Favorite ride, after all.

Also, don't understand how it looks so bad... It looked great last Christmas. And it's had a refurb since then!

 

Originally Posted By Expo_Seeker40

I arrive to the thread to see there are 37 new messages in it for me to read...after I picked my jaw up from the floor....I was wondering...what about the children? (ZINK OF ZEE CHILDREN EXPO!)...Nickelodeon had a very powerful presence in the early to mid 90s, more than the Disney channel did at the time. We already have some Disney channel related attractions in the park, I would not be surprised if social marketing targeted young children or youth with more in-park tie ins such as nickelodeon did. As we've mentioned over the years, there will be less unique things to see at Disney Parks and more franchises.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> Isn't that what Mrs. Pierce and Winky say when they have to wipe the food off you? ;-) <<

>> Seriously, I would disagree with your review (in part as I don't think the story is a great read), but that isn't the point at all.

It's a simple point. What gets placed in real, non-controlled media outlets and what winds up on Disney 'independent' web sites. <<

Winky hates it when she uses him to wipe the food from around my mouth off.

I don't think Disney has anything to fear from articles like that one. The New York Times has what, a circulation of a couple hundred thousand now, and you can find most of that number in the waiting rooms of Dentist around the country. After reading that article I can see why it's going bankrupt. Whoever the editor of that section was should have been taken outside, and publicly flogged. Chances are the only people that actually read the entire piece are folks high on pot or those of us right here on LP or a combination of those two groups.

As you know I can not stand narrow minded people that feel a necessity to put forth their own little agenda while mixing it in with comments about Disney. There is something sickly perverse about that. When you are in a Disney park with your wife, and kids, and you are sneaking off to smoke dope speaks volumes about one's character and motivation for writing this article. Then we have the health conscious little Peruvian lad who was mesmerized by all the large people around him on his once in a lifetime trip to WDW. It was so out of the ordinary for him he felt compelled to take pictures of their behinds. It seems if he wanted to take pictures of FAT A$$E$ he should have snapped pictures of his chubby little classmates. Let me take a quote from a Global Obesity web site.

" Child obesity rates in some countries have surpassed those of the United States such as: Argentina, Egypt, Jamaica, Malawi, Nigeria, Peru, Qatar, Uzbekistan, and South Africa. It seems clear that global obesity in children is no longer a Western issue. It's now found in all industrialized countries and some developing countries. "

<a href="http://www.helpcurechildobesity.com/global-obesity.html" target="_blank">http://www.helpcurechildobesit...ity.html</a>

That's right Mr. Agenda Hack. Peruvian kids are bigger porkers than those snotty little American Kids. Don't it just make you yearn for the good old days of famine, and malnourished kids. Those little tubby Peruvian kids are probably overweight from eating bags of chocolate macaroon cookies after sitting down, and sharing a doobie with their parents.

If this an example of a mainstream publication, give me the Mom's panel any day of the week. I'm sorry Spirit, but thrashing Disney merely for the sake of it, in a rag that has pretty much lost it's creditability by using this twisted article, is not a good example.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

>> Hey, are you implying that I don't know my Vs from my Ws? I can assure you that I can pronounce both rather perfectly, even with a lovely British accent! ;-) <<


I was just listening to Flight of the Valkyries. How do you pronounce that composers name Bolna?

 

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

<Just one of the many reasons I no longer take much of what is posted on the web very seriously. It provides good entertainment and I certainly spend enough time here. But you have to realize EVERYTHING, including LP, is much like TV. Part is real, part isn't, and it is hard to tell which is which. So I just enjoy the heck out of it while at the same time trying not to take much of it very seriously.

I think that is the primary problem with tea baggers. They actually BELIEVE all that crap they read on right-wing blogs.>

Amazing. It comes out that a left wing blog is built on a lie, and you use that fact to smear conservatives? No wonder World Events is like it is.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<I was just listening to Flight of the Valkyries. How do you pronounce that composers name Bolna? >>

Well, he is German (at least I think you are talking about the Ring of the Nibelung here), so of course I pronounce his name the proper German way. And I think a lot of Americans would have not much fun trying to pronounce his first name properly - the CH in German is a voiceless palatal fricative: [ç] according to this helpful Wikipedia article: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch</a>_(digraph) Fortunately I don't have to worry about what it is, I just can say it! ;-)

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<The New York Times has what, a circulation of a couple hundred thousand now, and you can find most of that number in the waiting rooms of Dentist around the country. >>

I can't comment on US dentists offices, but I can tell you that The New York Times is pretty well known here in Germany. The German newspaper I read - Süddeutsche Zeitung, the newspaper with the highest distribution in Germany - has a supplement every Monday with selected articles from The New York Times.

 

Originally Posted By Bolna

<<BUT ... if you remember 1988, the big debut in WDW (resorts aside) was the Norway pavilion with the Maelstrom attraction as its centerpiece. Well, that's where the surprise kicked in.

While I didn't think it was great, I enjoyed it. But reporters from some major publications (I think Miami Herald and USA Today were two) and TV/radio were not so enamored. The reception was lukewarm in general at best and not at all what Disney had expected.

Michael Eisner, who until then had been gold with everything he did in FLA, was none too happy. He actually seethed a bit when reading coverage.

Well, 1989 brought the biggest expansion in WDW history with Disney-MGM, Typhoon Lagoon and Pleasure Island all opening in the spring (WoL came later to EPCOT).

Now, Eisner could have reacted badly and insisted Disney not invite the individuals that ripped Maelstrom (in hindsight, they really were right as the attraction hasn't aged well and is the subject of a lot of 'what ifs?' right now), but instead he wanted them all back and he made sure WDW Press and Publicity put out the red carpet for them. He even made sure to invite ADDITIONAL people from those organizations as well. (BTW, I know this story from being told by ME himself and was confirmed by others who worked at the resort at the time).

He wanted ... DISNEY wanted ... to show these people ... these truly independent voices what it was capable of doing. And he hoped ... believed ... that even if Disney got some bad reviews they could use that information to better gauge the product they were selling. To learn what worked and what didn't and why.

Eisner didn't want to hear an echo chamber, unless it was a natural one.

He wanted unadulterated commentary. He wanted to see how others viewed the product, so Disney could make it good as it possibly could be.

So when Disney-MGM opened and some critics said there wasn't enough to do and that it wasn't worth the same price as a day at the MK or EC, he immediately greenlit plans to double the size/offerings of the park.

It was all research and it was priceless.

Good. Bad. And Ugly.

Now, how much value is there in having 486 bloggers drooling about Star Tours because you gave them a free vacation and let them talk to Anthony Daniels for two minutes with a handler close by?>>

Had to go back all the way to post 580 to find this - I had meant to comment on it at the time but then the thread moved so quickly that I forgot at first.

I think this is a great point about change in culture at Disney which we see in a lot of other areas as well.

According to your story Michael Eisner wanted to control the media just as much as the current company. But his way to achieve that goal at that time was to dazzle everyone with real content. Since that is the real thing, the stuff that can get people excited. Once you deliver on content, controlling the message becomes nearly a non-issue.

Today it seems that there is way more emphasis on the process of controlling the message, instead of taking care of the content which the message is about.