Originally Posted By leemac <<BTW, the last word I heard on this was park managers being told it was dead or on life support...that was just before Christmas 2009. I'm surprised TDO has kept a lid on they story so long.>> They are wrong. Four Seasons is still a "go" - I checked with our real estate folks. The developer still hasn't raised all of the debt necessary to finance the project but they reckon construction will begin before the end of the year. They obviously won't hit their 2012 opening date. Until they break ground there is always the chance that it won't happen - but Four Seasons have already sunk a lot of capital into the land purchase and the planning process so it doesn't make a lot of fiscal sense to pull the plug. Orlando is the largest US market where they don't have representation at present. Fours Seasons' owners (Cascade and Kingdom Holdings) have very deep pockets (Cascade is owned by Bill Gates and Kingdom by Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia).
Originally Posted By Indigo I tend to believe that Four Seasons was just a victim of the tight lending climate of the last few years. Many of that brand's hotels have had problems recently. The question I'd ask if I were the developer is what can I do to get Disney to sweeten the pot so that when I do open, I won't run into those same problems. With Disney having already made all those promises to Golden Oaks buyers, Four Seasons has some additional leverage and I wouldn't be surprised to see them use it.
Originally Posted By MousDad As many times as the Mouse has bought up land, made big promises to the locals, and then bailed, this serves them right.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^^^ Especially in the face of them wanting to sell, too. They can't even turn this over, and they still own the place! LOL
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>They are wrong. Four Seasons is still a "go" - I checked with our real estate folks. The developer still hasn't raised all of the debt necessary to finance the project but they reckon construction will begin before the end of the year.<< A very dicey issue in today's economy, where banks are up to their eyeballs in non performing commercial loans. Something tells me that the developer need sto put a little more of his own skin in the game, and he probably doesn't have it.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper A later article posted says it is the Four Seasons who is responsible for the delays.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Four Seasons would have their own bus. But that bus would be another vehicle using Disney roads.<< I think it's safe to assume that some of the people staying at the Four Seasons would have visited WDW without it being there. They likely would have stayed off-property and rented a car to get to the parks. Since there would be a dedicated bus service (probably very nice accomodations, like DME), this would likely convince most of them to give up their cars and use the bus. While there is still a new vehicle on the road, it also removes many private vehicles, making a net reduction in traffic. >>Until they break ground there is always the chance that it won't happen...<< Given what I've seen with various projects through the years, it's entirely possible to get part way (or fully) through construction and never open for customers. In my area, there's a string of retail buildings that only have the wood framing up, that appear to have been sitting like this for at least 5 years (I'm new to to the area, so I can't say for sure, but they are very weathered). Heck, how many empty locations are there in Epcot that never opened?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Something tells me that the developer need sto put a little more of his own skin in the game, and he probably doesn't have it.>> We are dealing with two of the richest individuals on the face of the planet in Gates and Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Alsaud - if they don't have skin then God help the rest of us. Four Seasons must be one of the most secure businesses in the world having them and founder Issy Sharp invested.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Heck, how many empty locations are there in Epcot that never opened?<< Not as many as the empty locations in Epcot that were once open.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We are dealing with two of the richest individuals on the face of the planet in Gates and Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Alsaud - if they don't have skin then God help the rest of us. Four Seasons must be one of the most secure businesses in the world having them and founder Issy Sharp invested.>> This move has nothing to do with money as Leemac ably stated above. There are other factors going on here. BTW, I find it interesting that PR hack Marilyn Waters was quoted as saying that 11 homesites had started construction, but didn't actually state that one house had yet to be sold. You can start construction on anything, but there's no guarantee that it will ever be finished or serve its original purpose.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Thanks again for insight Leemac to set'speculation' right here.. could it just be that Four Season's is in no hurry watching to see when the economy may turn some ? Also watching cost factors ? They can build it anytime they want since they have the land and the capital, but unlike some here, not everyone buy's into the philosophy that you build it anytime you want and the flock will come. Even some of Four Season's clientelle are watching costs these days.
