Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>And fwiw, this is not new. When Disneyland opened, a number of shops and restaurants (as well as the hotel) were operated by outside vendors, and I thing the tapestry was richer for it.<< Right! I think the key is partnering with companies who "get" the Disney ideal and Palmer Golf is a top notch organization. >>If Disney outsources golf courses today is there any reason not to think it could outsource just about anything it wants on property? Transportation? Hotels? Operations?<< If there are other businesses that can do a better job at it, more efficiently, I don't think this is a problem, either. If Marriott or Hilton came in to operate the hotels to their high standards, it actually is a "plus" for the guest. In some ways, this puts Disney more in the role of quality control, overseeing operations, supervising to make sure the partnering company upholds high standards. I just see it as a plus in many areas if it's handled well.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I don't see what the big deal is either. Like K2M said earlier there giving it over to a company that knows a thing or two about running a golf course.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, I'm a bit of a golfer and in my circles I suspect that "golfers" will be drawn more to "Palmer Golf" than they would be to "Disney Golf". Even with a PGA stop I'm not sure that golfers ever looked at those courses the same way they would others. If nothing else, this might convince those golfers to give the courses a try.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I think this is a real plus. Also, remember how awesome we hear TDL is? That is operated by OLC under licence. Disney frankly is not good at much these days, so give it to someone who is.
Originally Posted By CDF1 The golf business is so much more these days than just handing out starting times and range balls and selling hats. There is a growing marketplace of golf internet starting time services that make it possible for a course that is well managed to try and fill every available starting time with a mix of advance and last-minute reservations - there is a big business opportunity for golf instruction these days and there is a marketplace for golf outings, particularly in a place like WDW where you may have conventions or large groups staying on the premises. You have course maintenance which may greatly affect the desirability of the course in the eyes of potential players and which, if handled incorrectly, can severely impact the value of the property to everyday players and as a potential tournament site for professionals (as WDW hosts a tournament every year). Why not enlist the skills of a good partner to provide management of such a valuable asset to the WDW resort?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Disney frankly is not good at much these days, so give it to someone who is> Right now, Disney seems to be spending a lot of time looking back at the past. And, as, Satchel Paige, the legendary baseball player once said: "Don't look back, something might be gaining on you" And yes, Satchel Paige was real person!
Originally Posted By CDF1 Well, in the earlier days of WDW, did it not matter if Disney wasn't good at certain things like golf course management or fine dining? With large numbers of visitors descending on their resort regardless of incidentals didn't they operate free from many of those aspects of competition that might be of concern for them now that the tourist business is a lot more competitive? On the golf side of things, there's a large amount of courses in the Orlando area and some are right next door to WDW (Grand Cypress, Champion's Gate) now where previously WDW guests wouldn't think of leaving the property for a longish trip to some other courses in the area. Disney always paid attention to the higher-end dining in their resorts and hotels but a lot of those moderate and value resorts have food courts that are not much better (probably less) than the food court in your local mall. Nothing wrong with picking your spots where you want to work within and picking those spots where you want to employ outsourced partners for management purposes.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Having Palmer run your golf courses -- it's a win-win. Palmer is a quality company, and when Disney partners with quality companies -- it's a win-win. When EPCOT Center first opened, and the sponsors were General Electric, General Motors, Exxon, Kodak, The Bell System (at&t) -- it seemed impressive.
Originally Posted By leobloom I'm still trying to figure out how RoadTrip thinks WDW is doing an adequate job of keeping the parks up to date when he freely admits he thinks a two-day park hopper is overpriced. Guess it'll just have to remain an LP mystery.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The pricing has nothing to do with keeping the parks up to date. Disney has changed their pricing strategy to strongly encourage visits of 5 days or longer. The price per day for longer visits has gone down since the "Magic Your Way" pricing while the price per day of short visits has greatly increased.
Originally Posted By CDF1 WDW resort pricing has come a long way from their original 4 or 5 day parkhoppers where unused days never expired and could be used on return trips for the single baseline price. Now you have a chinese menu of options for the number of days, for parkhopping, for waterparks and for having unused days that do not expire. And why not offer extra days for a song beyond the typical 5-day average that a family spends at WDW? If you can keep those folks in a Disney park instead of allowing them to take their business elsewhere then thats money in the bank as that family will most likely purchase food and other items that have tremendously favorable margins for Disney Corp. Don't really see how this would affect decisions about maintaining the parks though - park maintenance seems more like it would be part of the company culture or vision in terms of wanting to present the best possible product to the customer as opposed to just milking an aging cash cow until it breaks down.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> The pricing has nothing to do with keeping the parks up to date. << The two are most definitely related. The value of a day's visit versus what the parks have to offer. One continues to skyrocket, the other continues to stagnate.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And why not offer extra days for a song beyond the typical 5-day average that a family spends at WDW? If you can keep those folks in a Disney park instead of allowing them to take their business elsewhere then thats money in the bank as that family will most likely purchase food and other items that have tremendously favorable margins for Disney Corp.>> While that is true, it drives away people like me with just a couple of days to spend. By charging $100 more for a 2-day hopper than Universal does, they are not only losing my ticket revenue, but losing 2 nights I would have spent in a deluxe hotel (and I've used all my DVC points so it would have been cash) plus easily $150 a day (for the three of us) for food. So because of them wanting to nick me for an extra $100 a piece for a two-day hopper they are losing well over $1,000 that I would have spent there. Seems kind of stupid to me. I know Disney wants it's pricing to discourage people from spending a couple of days at Universal rather than the extra days at WDW, but in my case it had the exact opposite effect. Besides... who knows what impact long-term the "davewasbasbaloo effect" could have on me. Once I've discovered there is life outside of WDW, I may want to return less often in the future. Already I'm using the bulk of my DVC points every year at DCL rather than WDW. And unlike at WDW, Disney gets no extra cash from me for park tickets or food... they are just redeeming a promise I paid for a long time ago with no extra cash going into their registers.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 The downside of the ticket strategy is that Disney has gotten lazy in the park.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<If you look at ALL the WDW parks and not just the MK, WDW has probably had as many "D's" and "E's" added over the past half dozen years as Disneyland has.>> Now why did I know that your "evidence" was going to have to go back 10-12 years ago (ie the Eisner decade). You certainly can't make that statement based on the past three years, or the next three years for that matter. But WDW will be getting some lovely new DVCs. Would you consider the DVCs to be E-ticket or D-ticket?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I think this partnership makes sense, and I am serious, the service is the Disney hotels are very poor. Having a proper hotelier take them on would be a much better experience.>> First off I didn't know there was a problem with the "quality of service" being rendered at Disney property golf courses. So as far as I am concerned it remains to be seen that the so called quality of the Palmer group will improve things. So far it's just pie in the sky verbage. One thing that is certain ( and I don't think you need a magic 8 ball for this) fees to use the golf courses will go up. And yes, Disney has demonstrated a trend at farming things out lately, from restaurants to golf courses. Do they still have a Disney Institute for management? What for? What is Disney managing these days?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<And fwiw, this is not new. When Disneyland opened, a number of shops and restaurants (as well as the hotel) were operated by outside vendors, and I thing the tapestry was richer for it.>> That's because Walt had to borrow by hook or by crook to build DL. He had to make some deals he otherwise would not have made. And Disney ended up buying the hotel. For that matter several of the rides/ attractions in WDW are "sponcered" by various companys. That doesn't mean those companys managing the day to day activities of those attractions. The trend of farming out of traditional Disney Company management functions is something entirely new.
