Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Now why did I know that your "evidence" was going to have to go back 10-12 years ago (ie the Eisner decade). You certainly can't make that statement based on the past three years, or the next three years for that matter.>> I certainly can in regards to Disneyland. When was the last major attraction added there? (And tearing out the Rocket Rods doesn't count!)
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<In some ways, this puts Disney more in the role of quality control, overseeing operations, supervising to make sure the partnering company upholds high standards. I just see it as a plus in many areas if it's handled well.>> And that's what I don't understand. Why is this an improvement? Why can't Disney do this with their own management team? It's kind of crazy when the arguement for a company to farm out traditional management is the believe that someone else is going to manage it better? What company on this planet believes their management team is imcompetent? Again why have the Disney Institute if your plan is to get rid of your management? Is there anything that Disney believes they can do competently?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I certainly can in regards to Disneyland. When was the last major attraction added there? (And tearing out the Rocket Rods doesn't count!)>> When I was there last it was the subs, and the line was 4 hours long? Easily half the guests at DL are in line for either the matterhorn or the subs. What attraction at WDW has lines 4 hours long?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<What company on this planet believes their management team is imcompetent?>> Companies do it all the time. They spin off a division to become it's own company while maintaining ownership. They realize that the division is not in their field of expertise and know it would be better managed by others. Since when was Disney's field of expertise managing golf courses?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Since when was Disney's field of expertise managing golf courses?>> Disney has been doing it for decades now. For probably longer than Arnold Palmer has been playing golf. When did you have to be an expert to "manage" a golf course? Disney had a reputation for hiring the best. When the National Park Service wanted to build recreatings of the Jupiter and Union Pacific 119 locomotives at Promitory Point Utah they hired Disney locomotive engineers to do it. And later hired them full time. Walt always hired the best. It's not a stretch for the Disney Company to hire the best golf course managers.
Originally Posted By dshyates No, they aren't hiring the best to be part of the Disney management team. They are sub contracting out to a different brand. Now it will be a Palmer Golf experience at WDW. And while it will probably improve the experience, it is no longer a Disney experience.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip And does that somehow also diminish the Richard Petty Driving Experience?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 As usual- the thread has devolved into nothing Disney does is good enough. They suck- they're stupid etc. They hire the premier golf legend/manager/business owner of all time and they get crap for it. Only here. "Disney has been doing it for decades now. For probably longer than Arnold Palmer has been playing golf." Sorry KT you obviously are not a golfer. Arnie was winning majors shortly after Walt was opening DL. Arnie founded AP_ golf design in 1972- the year after WDW opened and in that time has designed over 200 golf courses worldwide. He owns Latrobe Country CLub and is a partner in 15-20 more of the significant courses in the US. Founded the golf channel- and oh yeah, makes a hell of a lemonade/iced tea. "When did you have to be an expert to "manage" a golf course?" really, are you kidding me? This is not golf with windmills and dragons heads. There is a hell of a lot to it- and in today's world economy where golf courses ( especially in Florida) are closing faster that one can turn their head- you better have quality and a draw to get people to play and spend big bucks to do so. Also managing pace of play, ensuring the highest service standards and playing conditions- and of course player development tied to lessons and course pro's -- I can't remember ever hearing how great the Disney golf managemnt team was when walking Augusta...or Pebble Beach Oh and btw- he is redesigning the Disney Palm course whcih will close for a while as they change it to become a world class course- likely drawing a future tournament to call it home. It is a 20 year agreement- the only reason I am sad it's not longer is unfortunately Arnie would be 102 when it expires as it is. Oh, and the golf world has been highly positive on this alliance - and Arnie himself said he is looking forward to the opportiunty to contribute to Disney's rich and storied golf legacy" also the 5 courses would become destinations of the Palmer Advantage- that links about 250 courses worldwide and now will add family friendly destinations to draw golfers that likely would not have considered Disney.. but yeah-- they've 'sold out'-- what dumb goofs they are... glad to see nothings changed in the past month or two. sticking in community and general entertainment but could not resist actually chiming in on one of my other passions - golf. meanwhile- back to the bashing...and for me back to occasional lurking
Originally Posted By vbdad55 also have to find out why my no posting clearance was removed....was not by my request
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Thanks vbdad, for sharing some FACTS! Unsubstantiated knee-jerk reactions around here get really tiresome.
Originally Posted By Manfried I agree with RoadTrip and vbdad55 on this one. This will make things better. By the way, AT & T used to run Circlevision in California, not Disney, when they sponsored it.
Originally Posted By dshyates As I said, I think that this will most likely provide a better golf experience. And it doesn't bother me at all to have a non-Dusney brand, especially one of this calibre, on property. It just won't be a Disney experience. Similarly to having a Wolfgang Puck restaurant in the park, or Loews Hotels at Universal. I wasn't saying it is a bad thing, just different. And I think bringing in a premier organization like Palmer will breath life into Disney's golf business in an increasingly competitive field.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Disney is not farming this out to make it a better experience. That may end up being the end result, but that is not why Disney is doing it. The bottom line for Disney is money. Instead of spending money to run the golf courses they are now getting someone willing to pay them to run the courses. But if Disney wasn't making sufficient money at the golf courses how will Arnold Palmer who still have the costs of running the place plus the fees they are paying Disney make money? Many times out sourced companies save money by paying their employees less than the other companies, offering less benefits or increasing prices. And despite the fact that the Arnold Palmer employees will have to go thru Traditions, at the end of the day the employees will work for Arnold Palmer not Disney. A very different mindset. Interesting that no one here mentions the CM's. Who will be working the golf courses? Will Arnold Palmer bring in its own employees? Most certainly their own managers. What happens to the current Disney CM's and managers? Most participant employees do not receive the same benefits as a Disney CM. Will CM's be given the option to move to a different position in the company? Will they be asked to move to the Arnold Palmer group...which is a different company? Will CM's be told they have 30 days to find another role at WDW or be laid off? (Disney has done this several times when handing off things to outside companies)
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<As usual- the thread has devolved into nothing Disney does is good enough. They suck- they're stupid etc. They hire the premier golf legend/manager/business owner of all time and they get crap for it. Only here.>> When did Arnold Palmer leave his own organization and start wearing a Disney Company employee badge? He hasn't been hired. They farmer out their own golf courses to a different brand.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Thanks vbdad, for sharing some FACTS! Unsubstantiated knee-jerk reactions around here get really tiresome.>> There is a growing pattern of Disney farming out the management of traditional WDW venues; first restaurants and now golf courses. By all means please keep ignoring this "fact". Again, why have the Disney Institute when your organization keeps diminishing Disney management functions? And is there anything that Disney feels their management team is competent doing?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Which gives me a great idea for a "new" WDW t-shirt. With all this "rebranding" going on the WDW property, create a t-shirt similar to a Nascar team uniform with all the logos of Lowrys, Arnold Palmer. It seems to me you guys are making my arguement for me. Obviously everyone else in the world is better suited at making WDW a better "experience" than Disney is capable of doing. Please by all means continue demonstrating how much better the WDW "experience" will be with "others" managing the show. And your pointing fingers as us as the doom and gloomers. <rolls eyes>
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Thanks vbdad, for sharing some FACTS! Unsubstantiated knee-jerk reactions around here get really tiresome.>> I was just looking at the LP Lotion pictures of the MK from August 30 and noticed that there was rain in the picture, knowing how some act around here it wouldn't surprise me if people somehow blamed Disney for the rain.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I was just looking at the LP Lotion pictures of the MK from August 30 and noticed that there was rain in the picture, knowing how some act around here it wouldn't surprise me if people somehow blamed Disney for the rain.>> No, We would only blamed Disney for obsessing with weather conditions when Disney farms out management of the MK to the Weather Channel.
