Originally Posted By leemac It is worth noting that Arnold Palmer doesn't own Palmer Golf - it is owned in effect by a private equity-type organization that is backed by real estate investors like GE. Palmer merely licenses his name to the group.
Originally Posted By leemac This transaction is yet another example of the risk-adversive investment strategy that WDW Co. prefers these days. Shift the costs over to another entity and let them work to earn their cut and fill the WDW coffers too. WDW Co. stopped caring about the golf courses years ago - back in the '90s when Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge were new you would see marketing inside the resort everywhere. Now they don't want folks to golf during their vacation as it stops guests spending money in the parks and resorts. Palmer has a timeshare-type product called Palmer Advantage which gives members of Palmer courses reciprocal benefits at other Palmer-managed courses. It is this scheme that has WDW Co. excited as it is an easy marketing message. Heaven forbid if they marketed themselves to the millions of guests that pass through the resort.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<Disney is not farming this out to make it a better experience. That may end up being the end result, but that is not why Disney is doing it. The bottom line for Disney is money.>> sjhym33, I absolutely agree with your analysis. I also wonder where the money will come from which will now have to be profits for two companies instead of one. It's either going to be cost savings - like the employee's you mentioned - or a price increase. And one things I am kind of expecting is that the DVC discount will disappear. Just as free valet parking for DVC vanished when that service was outsourced.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It is worth noting that Arnold Palmer doesn't own Palmer Golf - it is owned in effect by a private equity-type organization that is backed by real estate investors like GE. Palmer merely licenses his name to the group.<< Corporate America - it just gives me warm fuzzies.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom How long before we can expect the Disney management team to "farm out" the management of the Wedding chapel at the Grand Floridian?
Originally Posted By CDF1 Farm out the Wedding Chapel to the Millionaire Matchmaker - then they can start up their own reality show at the Studios. Couples get matched, married and moved into DVC or Celebration residences. Be a blend of everything that people like about reality shows - romance, family squabbles, etc.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "Disney is not farming this out to make it a better experience. That may end up being the end result, but that is not why Disney is doing it. The bottom line for Disney is money. Instead of spending money to run the golf courses they are now getting someone willing to pay them to run the courses. But if Disney wasn't making sufficient money at the golf courses how will Arnold Palmer who still have the costs of running the place plus the fees they are paying Disney make money?" Yes Disney is in thebusiness of making money- but I guess you have inside access to the board rooms where they met to discuss this and they said " we don't give a crap about the experience- we JUST want to make money "? I mean c'mon-- this is getting really monotonous in the bashing. Yes, bottom line drives decsisions- even the mouses- but is it just possible that they get a two for one on this ? Better experience for customers and more money ? Also I have already stated how Arnie's group can make more money- these courses join the network of 75 + courses where he has a built in exisiting golf base. Many of these people are still supporting his courses and therefore will now consider playing golf at Disney whereas before they NEVER would have. Also Arnie's group offers up pro-lesson availabilty with again proven results. Bottom line is the experience will increase- Disney still makes money- Arnie makes money - you are co-branding two of the best brands in the world reputation wise-- yet all we can do here is look for something wrong with the decision because Disney blows no ? yawn
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It is worth noting that Arnold Palmer doesn't own Palmer Golf - it is owned in effect by a private equity-type organization that is backed by real estate investors like GE. Palmer merely licenses his name to the group ---- Just watched a special on TV on Arnie-- he is personally involved although no- not principle owner -- and he would be the person redesigning the DIsney course- he mentioed that specifically in the special
Originally Posted By vbdad55 . And one things I am kind of expecting is that the DVC discount will disappear. -- could be - but if a certain % of current golfewrs are also DVC owners I expect that to go into the decision. Not a slam dunk it goes away..but possible- sure
Originally Posted By vbdad55 While yes Disney could market themselves more- I agree-- are they necessarily golf experts ? What current % of Disney visitors are golfers ? I'll bet there is a survey somewhere with those numbers. Golf has retreated some from where it was even 10 years ago and the recession has contracted the number of golfers period. So why not turn it over to someone who knows and caters to this exact audience. I fail to see the harm here......
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom << I fail to see the harm here......>> Leemac ansered this is post # 82. <This transaction is yet another example of the risk-adversive investment strategy that WDW Co. prefers these days. Shift the costs over to another entity and let them work to earn their cut and fill the WDW coffers too.> I have also mentioned this many times in my posts on this subject matter. Which you seem to be ignoring with EACH POST YOU MAKE! While taking liberty to call those of us questioning this move on Disney's part as "BASHING". Anytime you would like to address the Disney's company trend toward risk-adversive investment strategy, please feel free to respond. Meanwhile you make want to lower the rhetoric about the "bashing".
Originally Posted By sjhym333 My suggestion is that Disney has and will continue to farm out various operations. Each time they do it dilutes the brand. The loyalty of employees is not to Disney, but the company paying them. I would strongly suggest that when companies have farmed out things, especially in terms of customer service driven companies, the main company suffers. I appreciate your love for Disney. I moved my family here 28 years ago to be a part of the Disney Company. I love it too. But its current path is undermining everything Disney has stood for. It's not bashing. It's concern for something we love.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >The pricing has nothing to do with keeping the parks up to date. Disney has changed their pricing strategy to strongly encourage visits of 5 days or longer. The price per day for longer visits has gone down since the "Magic Your Way" pricing while the price per day of short visits has greatly increased< I still love Disney, but as an owner of DVC the new ticket pricing basically kills any chance of me coming down for that long weekend which I typically will do a couple of times a year in addition to the regular 10 day family vacation. I refuse to pay a "penalty" for a short stay. Looks like I'll be using the Exchange program or taking cruises with my points.
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer Universal outsources their hotel operations. Never hear anyone bash them. Nobody ever cited them for lack of risk or responsibility. What they do say is that the hotels are spectacular. Disney outsources golf courses. People bash them. Cite lack of risk or responsibility... Completely ignoring the fact it will improve quality. They are still Disney courses on Disney property that uphold the tradition of Disney Golf.
Originally Posted By CDF1 There is nothing about a Disney golf course experience that makes playing a Disney course different from playing any other course - the golf business is highly competitive and experienced golf management companies know how to maintain a course and administer programs to try and keep their courses filled with players by means of tournaments, internet tee time services and special programs. It is a very specialized skill set that is required and why wouldn't Disney contract outside to do this? Additionally, it appears that they want the cache of having Arnold Palmer come in and redesign the existing Palm course to be a more modern design which probably means it will have the potential to be longer and more difficult than it already is for professional play (as the differences between pros and amatuers in the game of golf have never been greater). The golf business is very competitive in Orlando as a number of big names have become involved in teaching centers in the area so perhaps Disney has designs on offering some kind of training center with a Palmer affiliation - a bit ironic perhaps, where parents might bring their kids for golf lessons while they can amuse themselves in the Disney parks. Perhaps Disney would have involved Orlando's other most famous golfer if that guy hadn't torpedoed his career.
Originally Posted By dshyates I believe this is Disney's attempt at turning WDW into a premier destination golf resort. Since WDW opened, golf has always been seen as a recreational diversion while visiting the parks. A "something else to do while at WDW" mindset. But very few people think of golf as a primary reason to visit. So like other destination golf resorts, they will now have a well known golf pro name associated with their courses. Very similar to like The Greenbrier having Sam Snead. And while this is drawing back a little on the depth of the Disney brand, I think it will improve the quality of the golf experience at WDW. And while I am sure that the price will increase, it is in conjunction with the addition of a premier brand. Just like the Disney Dooney & Burke purses cost more than the regular Disney branded handbags.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It is a very specialized skill set that is required and why wouldn't Disney contract outside to do this?>> Because they have been a golf course operator for nearly 40 years. There isn't anything that Palmer Golf will be able to do to improve the existing efficiency of any of the courses. They all run the market-leading software to maximise their efficiency.
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer <<^^^Really? And you know that how?>> Arnold Palmer Golf management runs some of the best courses and clubs in the country.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Since WDW opened, golf has always been seen as a recreational diversion while visiting the parks. A "something else to do while at WDW" mindset.>> Can't agree with that. When we opened up Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge in '92 it was marketed heavily to golf tourists. Eagle Pines was designed by Pete Dye and Osprey Ridge was by Tom Fazio - you don't get two bigger names in golf course design. For some reason WDW Co. gave up on marketing Disney Golf after 9/11 and it never came back. I suspect it was moving the golf courses under Disney Sports that also manages the WWoS complex - they just had bigger fish to fry. Palmer isn't a great course designer - there are a host of far better designers out there. His name has a cache and they don't have anything in central Florida.
