Originally Posted By vbdad55 W/ inflation taken into account. CMs should be making between $10-14 an hr. ---- before benefits the top of this will range where a lot fo school districts in the country are for a degreed teacher at the high end. it's tough becaise I agree people should make a livable wage - yet if DIsney raises ticket prices to cover this for 65,000 potential new employees every few years..the screaming will be heard everywhere. tough one I agree do you and anyone here know what% of 65,000 is new eachyear ? or have the turnover rate where we might be able to back into
Originally Posted By vbdad55 that's starting salary for the teacher above - as I am assuming many CM's are new each year-
Originally Posted By wahooskipper When I worked at the park, the College Program host/hostess was the lowest earner in the park (I think it was $5.30 an hour but don't quote me.) I've read and witnessed an increase in the size of the College Program so I'm certain a far greater percentage of cast members are CP now than in the early 90s. I guess I'm just curious to know why a Disney Cast member entering a low/no skill job should earn more than a mall employee entering a low/no skill job. Is it simply because Disney, as a company, makes more? That doesn't make sense to me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That is too obvious of a bluff. Disney's ego isn't so big that they would stop milking the cash cow. I know they are arrogant...but they aren't THAT arrogant. I can't think of any other infrastructure needs they have around the exterior of the property. Roads are built, the high speed rail is off the table. And really, I don't think the $18.2 billion is an outrageous figure. I have read research that states that Florida's three national parks have an economic impact of $197 million annually to Florida's economy. Considering what the national parks DON'T have that Disney does (high admission prices, accommodations, food, retail, large employee base, huge numbers of vendors, etc) it really does seem like that $18.2 billion would be attainable.>> It is very easy to make numbers say whatever you want them to, especially when you are a huge corporation that owns politicians, judges and assorted other officials (I'm sure you do realize Florida is one of the most corrupt/anything you can get away with goes states in the USA). WDW certainly is very big driver of money into FLA, but how much of that goes beyond the Mouse's vault is what I question. Oh, and I don't necessarily agree with the national park figure either. Like I said, you can torture numbers anyway you like. I think my Spirited value to the State of Florida is $578.6 billion according to a study commissioned by my good friend and former attorney Scott Rothstein!
Originally Posted By hopemax If you made $5.30 in 1992, and run it through an hourly wage earner inflation calculator, that would be the equivalent of $8.44 today. The current rate for CPers is $7.25. About 14% lower.
Originally Posted By hopemax Now, what I would also like to know...CPers have to pay for their "rent." If that has stayed pace with inflation, or increased then the CPers would even have less money when everything is all said and done.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Now, what I would also like to know...CPers have to pay for their "rent." If that has stayed pace with inflation, or increased then the CPers would even have less money when everything is all said and done.>> Rent was an atrocious rip of when I was a CP.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What should be the going rate for unskilled labor? And, I don't mean to ask that with contempt. I worked at Disney in addition to other amusement parks.>> Oh, I don't even know if I should respond as I've been trying to coax old man Pierce out of semi-retirement by telling him we're keeping most of the political rhetoric out ... but when an ignorant person told me today that things aren't that bad because McDonald's was hiring 50,000 workers today, I feel my blood boil. So, my question, wahoo, is what kind of state/country do you want to live in and raise your children in? Do you want jobs that pay living wages? Or do you want jobs that pay $8-10 an hour with as little benefits as possible? I don't think no/low skilled theme park workers should be pulling in $50,000 a year. But should they have to live in their cars? Or live four to an old Days Inn motel room on 192 (take a look at how many of those properties have become de facto housing projects for CMs and ask if that's something Disney should be proud of). If the average WDW worker truly made $30,000 a year, I might feel better. But when the realistic number is likely less than half that (because execs with their six and seven figure incomes get tossed into the mix, that number gets inflated by a HUGE margin ... I know way too many college educated, intelligent, professional CMs -- who don't simply operate SWSA or stand at the Tiki Room entrance, but actually work in semi white collar positions for under $10 an hour), I just get very sad, clutch my Duffy and start sobbing ... <<I hear the low wage gripe regularly so I am inclined to ask...what should those cast members make? (Keeping in mind the FT cast member does have health and retirement benefits.)>> I'd simply say a livable wage ... <<Of course Disney should maximize profits. They are, after all, a business.>> To what ends? If Disney can double its profits (and it's doing pretty damn well right now) by laying off another 500 workers and cutting benefits for another 5,000, should it? At some point, compassion, fairness and ethics need to return to business in this country (and it ain't gonna flow from Wall Street) or we are going to be third world. The state of Florida already largely feels that way. <<And, considering the role they play in Florida (and in Orlando in particular) why should they not be able to exert political influence?>> Why? Seriously? Because our government and officials should answer to THE PEOPLE. Not corporations. The bastardization of democracy means the needs and desires of the citizens will always take second place (or worse). We are supposed to be a democratic nation, first and foremost. Democracy and capitalism do NOT (Fox News and CNBC aside) go hand in hand. The opposite is largely the case. TWDC has no one's best interests in hand beyond the people who run it and institutional investors. I don't want Disney's graft making decisions that affect people beyond the berm. <<I didn't get paid much working the various amusement park jobs I had when I was younger but I had a heck of a good time and I'll bet I enjoyed the working years of my youth a LOT more than the guy working the Taco Bell stand at the mall.>> Yes, key words being when you were young. It's why most CPers and IPers and seniors seem to be the most MAGICal CMs. They don't need the income by and large. 99% of the time when I get a miserable CM at WDW, they don't fall into one of the above categories. It's much like a spouse of a friend who is working at a car wash for $10 an hour ... this is a professional dude. But he can work for that wage because my friend (his wife) got a 40% raise in her new position. His money is all play money Living on $10 an hour? That'll get you a nice underpass to live under unless you have money stashed away or are living on AmEx and Visa. The real question is should businesses and entire industries have business models that are predicated on a vast pool of workers who artificially, and at great detriment to their communities and the fabric of the great American Dream, subsidize shareholder value?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Maximum profits isn't the only thing Disney concerns itself with. They have a long and well publicized history of community support. But, it is often forgotten about and it doesn't make for "sexy" debate.>> That much is certainly true. Disney can be very generous to parts of its community ... <<How much are housekeepers in ANY hotel in Orlando making? How much are the burger flippers on International Drive making? How much does the banquet server at UCF make? (And, how many of them have benefits comparable to a FT Disney employee?)>> The dominant silverback tends to lead the pack (I learned that at DAK ... thanks Joe!) ... In O-Town, that leader is WDW Co. The other service businesses can keep wages down (although some do pay more than Disney ... and some by a few dollars an hour because they demand a higher caliber worker than Mickey does) because of Disney. If tomorrow Disney said it was raising its starting wage to $11 an hour, then what do you think would happen across the board?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<My issue is more that nobody can really verify the numbers since it said in the article that not the whole study was published, only excerpts.>> I found the whole study online somewhere ... will try and post a link later/tomorrow. <<And then what is "in it" for them to have the study done in the first place? I am sure that they had to pay quite some sum to get the study done. So there must have been a valid reason to spend the money. Maybe it was originally commissioned at a time when the high speed rail project was still going to happen?>> The study was done in 2010 and based on 2009 if I'm recalling correctly. Don't know if the rail project had anything to do with it. I know they did a similar one for DLR and said it contributed something like $5 billion to the economy in SoCal. But the point of doing these is PR and so whenever Disney wants something that may be only in its best interests, it can throw up the study and say (putting my Mickey voice on now) 'See, what me and my pals do for youse guys? This place would be a vast swampy wasteland if not for us ... you need to remember that. Like now! ... Oh, and have a MAGICal day!'' ;-)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 If tomorrow Disney said it was raising its starting wage to $11 an hour, then what do you think would happen across the board? ------------ tickets prices everywhere would go up immediately to cover the cost-- and then they'd build more DVC units to raise cash , and do even less park enhancement. it's just not as simple as raising the salaries - so a 25% increase in salraies also raises the cost of the insurance coverages for S&A-- teachers go on strike because the guy running Dumbo is making more than them -- so referendums are passed to raise millions to pay the teachers and the opulent pensions they acrue-- thus raising property taxes..lowering home values even more because no one can afford to won them. Grocery stores raise prices a few % simply because people now can afford more ( supposedly) - etc etc etc. it's the etc's that cause an issue for anyone-- nothing like what you propose can be done in a vaccum-- all things are inter-related as both political parties have found out-- there is no simple solution out of this mess because we've off shored so many real jobs that people are forced to live on jobs that were never ever meant to be permanent gigs to raise families on..
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<it's the etc's that cause an issue for anyone-- nothing like what you propose can be done in a vaccum-- all things are inter-related as both political parties have found out-- there is no simple solution out of this mess because we've off shored so many real jobs that people are forced to live on jobs that were never ever meant to be permanent gigs to raise families on..>> But that's just it, because corps have been allowed to do so ... what do you do? People can't go from $80,000 a year professional jobs with full benefits to 25 hours a week at Starbucks, Target, Taco Bell OR WDW at $9 an hour without falling into a terrible cycle of poverty. Now, you have companies in the worst economy since the Great Depression who don't even want to talk to you if you don't have a job now. There's a reason why we don't publish stats on how many people kill themselves annually in the USA. Something is terribly wrong when the fundamental underpinning of our economy is that the people/workers exist solely to increase shareholder value each and every quarter. Just matching isn't even good enough. That is the reality right now. I am astounded that there isn't even more violence in our country. You simply can't have so many people being told they're worthless and they don't matter, while politicians from BOTH/EACH/EVERY side keep inacting policies and laws that will keep us sliding into the abyss. People do matter. People (well, not all or even most) are priceless. I am very tired of being told what a kind and compassionate nation I live in when I see how untrue that has become ... well, unless you're a kitty that gets stuck in a drainpipe!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Oh, and this could have been comissioned for many reasons ... like say wanting the state to pay for an expansion for Port Canaveral ... or allow them to develop land with wetlands on it ... or ... well, pretty much anything. Maybe something in the NEXTGEN project violates a current state law? Or maybe it's just walking a line? Or just reminding the politicos that Disney doesn't want the massive casino resorts that the Vegas Sands Corp and Wynn have been trying to develop on the beaches. Who knows why Disney does whatever it does? But it isn't simply about Dreams, Wishes and MAGIC!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The study about the National Parks was conducted by a nonpartisan firm called the Headwaters Group. I certainly didn't pull the numbers out of thin air. And, I fully expect doubters to question everything. If people are going to work on the College Program at Disney for the money then they are going for the wrong reasons. The experience proved invaluable to me and as I look back on what is becoming a pretty successful career I credit much of my success to participating in that program. Housing was expensive...but I felt it was worth every penny. Granted I was in Vista Way so I can't speak to all of the newer housing they have created but I was plenty happy with it and I don't recall anyone complaining about the cost. I know plenty of people that do unpaid internships. I considered the College Program an internship with pay...and it was everything I hoped it would be. There is no doubt that there are professions that are underpaid...teachers at the top of that list. But, if you look at compensation across the board I think Disney is in line with today's economics. Add to that the fact that the majority of these unskilled positions also come with health and retirement benefits and I think it is reasonable. I know plenty of people that work at Disney and have other jobs on the side. Then again, I know a lot of people in my own profession that hold more than one job.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I am astounded that there isn't even more violence in our country. You simply can't have so many people being told they're worthless and they don't matter, while politicians from BOTH/EACH/EVERY side keep inacting policies and laws that will keep us sliding into the abyss. People do matter ---- have you ever visited Detroit ? I did recently-- that is what happens in the long run..it's not pretty, I never said it was. It's easy to blame the corps for moving jobs off shore- but the politicians not only let them, in many cases they passed laws that made it beneficial to do so-- and that is both parties..although some like to make this a GOP deal..sorry, both party leaders are in the pockets of big biz.. I am not condoning it- but the pinball effect of making the change you recommended is reality. Short of chaning our entire economic system, I don't have the answer- if I did I'd be a wealthy man
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I guess I'm just curious to know why a Disney Cast member entering a low/no skill job should earn more than a mall employee entering a low/no skill job.<< Maybe because there is a big difference between a Disney themepark CM and some sullen kid who works at the Orange Julius at the mall?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If you made $5.30 in 1992, and run it through an hourly wage earner inflation calculator, that would be the equivalent of $8.44 today. The current rate for CPers is $7.25. About 14% lower.<< What inflation rate did you use? In my real world experience the cost of living has gone up much more than that since 1992. My salary increased that much (percentage wise) between 1992 and 2000. And the cost of living is increasing at a horrifying rate as we speak. Yet most CM's will be lucky to gt a 2% raise.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "I am very tired of being told what a kind and compassionate nation I live in when I see how untrue that has become" Amen!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper >>Maybe because there is a big difference between a Disney themepark CM and some sullen kid who works at the Orange Julius at the mall?<< And the sullen kid at Orange Julius doesn't get any retirement or health care. And, since these kids at WDW (and adults and seniors for that matter) are a cut above the kid at Orange Julius, doesn't it stand to reason that they knowingly accepted the job at WDW having been presented all of the facts about pay and benefits? I know a lot of College Program kids who fell in love with the company and either stayed when their program was up or went back at some point. They too did it knowing the wages. When I was there I put 2 and 2 together pretty quickly. 25,000 employees or so (back then) + limited number of supervisor or high paying positions = I stay and work on the cheap because I bleed pixie dust / or I leave.
