Originally Posted By fkurucz "And the sullen kid at Orange Julius doesn't get any retirement or health care." CMs get pensions? That's news to me. Or do you mean a 401K, where poverty wage CMs are supposed to "save". Anyway, the old adage applies: pay peanuts and you get monkeys. And the lack of quality in CMs is most noticeable, especially when compared to 20+ years ago (especially in Anaheim). I remember when a summer CM job was highly coveted by college students in SoCal, not just because it was considered cool, but the pay was really, really good. While I was earning 3.35/hr my roomate bagged a CM job that paid $6+ per hour, bussing tables at the Tahitian terrace.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And the sullen kid at Orange Julius doesn't get any retirement or health care.>> I don't know what OJ offers full time employees ... because those are the ones we are talking about, right? <<And, since these kids at WDW (and adults and seniors for that matter) are a cut above the kid at Orange Julius, doesn't it stand to reason that they knowingly accepted the job at WDW having been presented all of the facts about pay and benefits?>> First, why would you ever assume that the Disney CMs are a cut above. Maybe in 1992 when you worked there that would be true, but in 2011? As to knowingly accepting the salary etc ... that sounds like the talking point of a six or seven figure talking head on FOX, CNBC or even CNN. Have you looked at the economy? If your hometown is like the vast majority of those across the USA, then just take a real, good, hard look around. I know my planned/affluent community didn't plan for this kind of economic collapse and devastation. I see that on 49 cent hamburger days at McD's or when my neighbors can only put $10 worth of gas in their tanks (also funny how the cars all look older, but that's just my hood, I'm sure). People literally don't have choices (that is why you have mothers driving their children into rivers). For a great number, they live like they have a gun to their heads and they take a job like WDW because there simply is no other choice. There is a huge lie that exists in this country today that jobs exist and options (well, going to China is always one ... it has worked for me) do for people. It reminds me of the Fire and Ice poem. <<I know a lot of College Program kids who fell in love with the company and either stayed when their program was up or went back at some point. They too did it knowing the wages. When I was there I put 2 and 2 together pretty quickly. 25,000 employees or so (back then) + limited number of supervisor or high paying positions = I stay and work on the cheap because I bleed pixie dust / or I leave.>> That's your experience, and you were smart to leave and, it would seem, lucky to as well. But you can't extrapolate your situation two decades ago, a vastly different world, to today's reality. I have friends and neighbors who are doing very well right now, but they do get they are in a small minority. A friend just got a promotion and a 40% raise. You think that's typical?
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <I guess I'm just curious to know why a Disney Cast member entering a low/no skill job should earn more than a mall employee entering a low/no skill job. Is it simply because Disney, as a company, makes more? That doesn't make sense to me.> Better employees. The difference between the smiling, efficient kids who whisk my food to me at Chik-Fil-A while I'm still putting my wallet away and the zombies at your average WDW QSR (or Burger King, to be fair).
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <If people are going to work on the College Program at Disney for the money then they are going for the wrong reasons. The experience proved invaluable to me and as I look back on what is becoming a pretty successful career I credit much of my success to participating in that program.> Not trying to be snarky, but can I ask what you did, and what you do? Most CPs I know think it was fun--spend a winter semester in sunny FL, days off in the park for free, tons of booze and easy sex (and, for the many gay CPs, often the first accepting environment they've ever been in)--but also think working as a cashier or janitor is the same type of work you can get anywhere in the country. I'm not sure I ever met a CP whose job actually tied into their major, unlike my own internships. Not sure how that translates into a successful career more than any other part-time job any of us had.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<spend a winter semester in sunny FL, days off in the park for free, tons of booze and easy sex >> Stop! You're making me almost want to go back!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<spend a winter semester in sunny FL, days off in the park for free, tons of booze and easy sex >> ------ is that in the brochure ?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Good point Seventyone. I was a Recreation major so working at WDW was, in a round about way, connected to my major. But, I have plenty of friends who worked there with majors in completely unrelated fields. Just having Disney on one's resume opens a ton of doors. I've had interviewers tell me and other friends that they got the interview largely because of the Disney mention. Yes, retirement is what I meant fku and they fact that Disney employees can participate (and have a limited match by the employer) in a 401K is not necessarily a bad thing in my mind. Given the alternatives to Disney people could do a lot worse. I know jobs are scare and I have friends both in my profession and out of it who have been unemployed for a year or longer. I know what they are struggling with. Many of them would be happy to work at Disney if for no other reason than to have access to health insurance...even if the pay is lower. I guess I have to pose the question...if Disney is such a big, bad entity then why in the world do people support the company to the extent that they visit it and regularly participate in a fan site?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Oh, and I must have missed the memo about easy sex. Incidentally, my buddy was a janitor on the College Program. He is coming up on his 15th year with the company...in a management role. He isn't the norm...but it is certainly possible.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Good point Seventyone. I was a Recreation major so working at WDW was, in a round about way, connected to my major. But, I have plenty of friends who worked there with majors in completely unrelated fields. Just having Disney on one's resume opens a ton of doors. I've had interviewers tell me and other friends that they got the interview largely because of the Disney mention.>> That used to be the case. Back when Disney had standards and didn't hire anyone who walked in the door. Don't think it's quite as much as selling point these days. But I think all your talk of the CP is kind of deflecting from other, more important, points brought up in this thread. I don't have a bad thing to say about the CP and think it's largely a win-win for both Disney and the kids, who are largely partying it up. No one is raising a family on $8 an hour ... successfully, anyway. Would you, or anyone else, like to address that? <<Yes, retirement is what I meant fku and they fact that Disney employees can participate (and have a limited match by the employer) in a 401K is not necessarily a bad thing in my mind. Given the alternatives to Disney people could do a lot worse.>> How? Are you saying that other major corps in the service sector don't offer similar benefits to FULL time workers? <<I know jobs are scare and I have friends both in my profession and out of it who have been unemployed for a year or longer. I know what they are struggling with. Many of them would be happy to work at Disney if for no other reason than to have access to health insurance...even if the pay is lower.>> You're saying that friends of yours who are professionals and are out of work, due to the economic disaster that hasn't gotten better at all in four years, would gladly work at WDW for $8 an hour just for insurance (which they'd have to be full time to get)? Are we third world yet? <<I guess I have to pose the question...if Disney is such a big, bad entity then why in the world do people support the company to the extent that they visit it and regularly participate in a fan site?>> Disney is no different than any large multi-billion American corporation in the 21st century. People support it for many reasons, most likely they enjoy the creative content that the Mouse creates/distributes/sells. But that point has nothing to do with how Disney treats/pays its workers ... or how much its worth to the state of FLA ... or whether or not its money should give it comparable political power in our government.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh, and I must have missed the memo about easy sex.>> Still angry about that? ;-) You haven't lived until you've walked in on Buzz Lightyear doing Peter Pan (seriously!) <<Incidentally, my buddy was a janitor on the College Program. He is coming up on his 15th year with the company...in a management role. He isn't the norm...but it is certainly possible.>> Yep. The current DLR Prez started out as the lowly son of a Winter Haven pharmicist who had come here from Greece and bussed tables at the Contemporary Resort in 1971. ... Now, he's living the Newport Beach/American Dream. There are always exceptions. But the rule basically is you don't start in a minimum wage position and even make it to low level management, let alone exec level.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Are we third world yet? ----------- stay tuned - we're on the fast track
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Yes, retirement is what I meant fku and they fact that Disney employees can participate (and have a limited match by the employer) in a 401K is not necessarily a bad thing in my mind." FWIW, few if any employees earning so little can afford to participate in 401K programs. Its one of the reasons why companies replaced defined pension programs with 401Ks, they know that many employees won't participate, and hence they won't have to give a match to them. And corporations count on the fact that participation rates amongst low paid paid employees is very, very low. In other words, if you are making $10 an hour the 401K benefit is essentially worthless since you probably can't spare a penny to save in it. But not to worry, low paid worker, the GOP wants to get rid of Social Security to "protect" you.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Are we third world yet? ----------- stay tuned - we're on the fast track" Consider this: half of the workforce in the US is employed in menial jobs and earns less than $500 per week. They can't blames this on teenagers earning pocket money, the lion's share of this group are adults, many who used to have better jobs and are now struggly to provide for their families. For half the workforce, earning a living means holding down 1 or more part time, low wage jobs, often with no benefits. A big chunk of that bottom 50% qualifies for public assistance (foodstamps and medicaid). Take those away as the GOP wants (while sneering "get a job" to these people, who do have jobs) and I don't want to even contemplate how ugly things could get.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ but yet we protect 80%+ pensions for government and teachers etc with taxpayer monies-- and continue to offer those plans, including lifetime benefits. No one in the private sector has had that for over a decade. I don't want to see people lose their pension like I did ( and where was the government when I lost mine after 24 years - supporting big business that's where) , but we cannot continue to offer plans we cannot afford. -- and that the Dems doing that because those are their voters. Each party has their hand stuck in this mess with plenty of blame to go around-- and it will get uglier long before it gets better
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Consider this: half of the workforce in the US is employed in menial jobs and earns less than $500 per week. ------------- funny, I may have mentioned this once but my MBA final paper- and doctorate thesis was done on just this. A workforce of part time services workers, unable to save, no pensions and limited benefits ( eventually none private sector provided) - an aging workforce without a security net and jobs offshored at an alarming rate. It was focused on shared services before the term was popular in the US. The year was 1990 when I did this-- now I am sorry to say I may have been a visionary
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>but yet we protect 80%+ pensions for government and teachers etc with taxpayer monies-- and continue to offer those plans, including lifetime benefits. << Most of those pensions are dead men walking. They're underfunded and there's no way to make them good. Colorado's pension fund is expected to be insolvent (as in have no funds at all) by 2020). The state budget would have to grow 50% in order to preserve the pensions payouts, and that simply isn't going to happen. Unlike Uncle Sam the states cannot borrow or print money to cover these unfunded obligations and the tax increases required to fund the pensions are politically unfeasible. THe politician in Illionois might talk about preserving these pensions but in most states they are pretty mum about it. Even in "Blue" Colorado there is no talk of saving the pensions, instead we are facing yet another budget hole to plug next fiscal year. How can they save pensions when they are struggling to keep schools open? We already have one of the lowest per pupil budgets in the nation, and many districts are closing schools to save money.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm apologize for getting sidetracked. A one day ticket is approaching $90 at the park and multi day tickets are already eye popping. How much is everyone here willing to pay in order for the ride operator or store clerk to have a good salary, benefits, retirement and hold only one job?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 How can they save pensions when they are struggling to keep schools open? --- our Governor raised the state income tax another 2% this year - in the middle of a recession to pay for more.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>our Governor raised the state income tax another 2% this year - in the middle of a recession to pay for more.<< Illinois is an aberration.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "A one day ticket is approaching $90 at the park and multi day tickets are already eye popping. How much is everyone here willing to pay in order for the ride operator or store clerk to have a good salary, benefits, retirement and hold only one job?" Yeah, yeah, we want everything to be as cheap as possible. But it comes at a price: the race to the bottom. Low paid CMs need foodstamps to feed their families. Guess who pays for that? We are getting close to 50 million American receiving foodstamps, because of the race to the bottom. Also, Disney will charge what the market will bear. What it pays its CMs has no bearing on what people will pay for admission. But it will pay its CMs as little as possible to fatten its bottom line. CMs didn't always earn slave wages, and Disney was profitable. The problem is that corporations are insatiable in providing "shareholder value" and it's coming out of workers' hides. At my previous employer they unilaterally cut everyone's salary 5% one year, even though net profit was already bigger than payroll. It's pure greed and I'm sick and tired of rolling over and playing dead for Corporate America. I'm not gonna buy their crap anymore (and that includes Disney vacations).
