Originally Posted By andyll <<I think it was lying about where he lived,>> I thought only federal returns were released. It is already known that one year he claimed residentency in both Utah & MA. He got caught when running for Gov and had to restate his UT returns.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The tax issue was pretty much dormant. There were a few snide remarks here and there from Reid, but nothing significant. Romney just brought the issue to the forefront again. He just made a lot of people go, "Oh, right, he's hiding something in his taxes. I'd forgotten about that." And he released them in such a way that it raises more questions and doubts. This guy is the worst political strategist in a major campaign that I've ever seen.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Romney's father was born in Mexico but, as he has bragged, no one has asked to see his birth certificate.> Actually, it's pretty amazing that no one disputes that George Romney was born in Mexico and lived there for the first several years of his life (i.e. wasn't just born overseas almost as an accident and his parents came back immediately afterwards). Yet when he ran for president, AFAIK no one made a peep about his being disqualified due to his place of birth.
Originally Posted By andyll <<The tax issue was pretty much dormant.>> I'm sure it was going to come up again. I'd be disappointed if it wasn't discussed in the debates.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>This guy is the worst political strategist in a major campaign that I've ever seen.<< Almost. There was that other guy who selected Sarah Palin and kept suspending his campaign and so forth. But Mitt's definitely in the running, that's for sure, and there's still a month to go.
Originally Posted By andyll I don't know how he'll survive the debates. He's just not a very likeable guy.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 We're at almost the exact point (mid September) where, 4 years ago, McCain made several stumbles in a row and his campaign never recovered. First he said "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" right after it became painfully obvious to everyone that we were starting to melt down. Then he said the situation was so serious he was going to have to suspend his campaign - he just had to go to DC and help out. Then he was shown in these meetings of Washington's leaders essentially adding nothing of value to the discussion. His campaign never rebounded. Sure, he ticked up a point or two here and there at certain times, only to lose it again, but at that point he stayed behind Obama for good. He started to look inept. He got the loser's stink on him. I think the same thing is happening here. Romney's just starting to look like he's not ready for this job. Barring an external event that changes everything, I don't know if he can recover. And Obama and Obama-supporting superpacs have soooooooo much material they can run with for the next 6 weeks to cement the impression that people are getting. And by the way - I'd put Dukakis' campaign right up there for ineptness. Bush/Atwater hammered away at him and he just took it, letting them create our impression of him, and watching his solid lead evaporate and turn into a solid lead for Bush. It was what led Clinton and Carville to create "The War Room" to respond instantly to whatever Bush threw at them, before it had a chance to stick.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>He's just not a very likeable guy.<< It'll be amusing to watch him resist the urge to smirk in that oh so condescending CEO way that he does.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Who cares? I don't really care if he releases his tax returns or not. They are really no one's business. We don't need his tax returns to know that he is a rich SOB who does all the crap that rich SOB's typically do. To keep harping on it is just as stupid as the birthers continuing to claim Obama is not a citizen. Don't we really know who and what Romney is with or without his tax records??
Originally Posted By andyll <<To keep harping on it is just as stupid as the birthers continuing to claim Obama is not a citizen>> Apples and oranges. The HI governor certified Obama was born in HI in the 2008. Obama himself released his birth certificate to the public last year. There now is no doubt he was born in HI. Romney's taxes are a different story. His 2000-2009 tax returns should look pretty much like his 2010 released tax return. He made a ton of money mostly through investments so his rate should have been between 10-15%. A 10% rate would become a talking point but really no more damaging then a 13% rate. So what's there that would be so damaging? I can't think of anything other then he took advantage of the tax amnesty program in 2009. An elected official you can't cheat on your taxes and get elected. Nanny taxes took down politicians before and that was cheating by the $1000s. Romney's cheats are likely in the 100Ks. And yes it pisses me off. Outside of my main job I run personal websites and build websites for others. The majority of my revenue doesn't have a 1099 behind it. My wife is a pet sitter. Almost 100% of her revenue is cash. I reported on my taxes last year over 25K that the IRS had no knowledge of. Even an audit wouldn't have found it. I paid over a 15% effective rate for the 3rd year in a row. I could use that 2-3K in taxes I could have hidden... my wife has health issues. It sickens me that I struggle to fund my kids education, my wifes medical bills, and our retirement while Romney with 200+ Million in the bank cheats on his taxes for an amount of money that makes no difference in his lifestyle.
Originally Posted By andyll And also... Romney's one specific policy plan is to cut the capital gains tax to 0%. He made over 40 million the last 2 years and under his plan would have paid 0 in taxes. The Koch brother will have given over 200 million in this election. What is their return going to be if Romney is elected? Same with that asswipe in Las Vegas that will have given 100 million. I thought it was blatant when Bush shifted wealth to the rich... They're bending us over this time.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Great posts, andyll. I report income from various music gigs every year the IRS would never know about. Someone once said I was a "sucker" for doing so, but I just don't see it that way. When I was a kid, while my dad was getting gas, I went to the Coke machine and just started idly pressing buttons to pass the time (I was kind of inordinately fascinated by Coke machines when I was little). To my surprise, at one point a Coke came out. "How great is that?!" I thought. I ran and told my Dad, certain that he'd have the same reaction. Instead, he told me to return the can to the man in the office. "What?" "Or you can give him the money for it." "But I don't have any money on me." "Then you have to return it " I couldn't believe it. It seemed just like an innocent unexpected windfall. Who could turn down a free coke?? But of course it wasn't free. The guy in the office had paid something to have that can in that machine. And it wasn't honest to just take it. It instilled something in me that I still remember. Thanks, Dad. Everybody likes to trash the IRS but if you're not honest and pay less than you should, that's not consequence-free. Other people have to make that up, even if it's just in the form of larger deficits (which increases the interest we all pay collectively) and the eventual raising of taxes - as the Ryan plan does on the poor while cutting them on the rich. If someone like Romney is not honest on his taxes, the effect is amplified, just because of the level of money he wouldn't be paying that the rest of us would have to make up. So yeah, I want to know if he took amnesty in 2009, which would mean he cheated (all of us) and which he could clear up very easily by releasing that year. He won't. And I think it can't just be that he paid an already ridiculous (but legal) rate as in 2010. We already know that. That wouldn't hurt him. There must be SOMETHING in there that would damage him more than not releasing it is already damaging him.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Excellent posts, andyll and Dabob. I, too, want to know if Romney took part in the amnesty program. I believe he did, which is why he won't release the rest of the tax returns. He knows that would hand a solid victory to Obama. Nothing else at this point in time would make any sense for not releasing the returns. It has to be something very damaging if not outright illegal. And hiding funds from the IRS in Swiss bank accounts is definitely illegal. The part that is so galling about this situation concerns the little speech that Romney delivered at the fundraiser. He was pissed -- as were the rich donors -- that 47% of the nation's adults weren't paying Federal income taxes. He was livid that these individuals supposedly believed they were "entitled" to basic necessities of life, like food and shelter, even though they weren't paying Federal income taxes. And because they weren't paying those taxes, they were lax in taking "personal responsibility" for their lives. Pardon my language, but WTF! Where does Romney get off on griping about a group of individuals he has zero clue about, complaining about issues that aren't true for the vast majority of that group. He does this in spite of the real possibility that he most likely did exactly the very thing that he's complaining about regarding them: not paying Federal income taxes by hiding funds in Swiss bank accounts. This is why we have the right to know what's in those tax returns. This man thinks that millionaires are the elite in society who should be able to do whatever the hell they want. He wants to take the capital gains tax rate to zero. He believes that all of the social programs that keep citizens from falling into poverty should be paid for by those citizens whose life circumstances have placed them in the unfortunate position to where they need those social programs in the first place. Mitt "Let them eat cake!" Romney doesn't give a flying F about anyone other than rich people like him. He doesn't want to pay taxes, his rich buddies don't want to pay taxes, but they all want to reap the rewards of living in a first world nation that's given them the means to become the filthy stinking rich millionaires that they are. Everyone else should sacrifice their security and health and comfort in order to make him as rich as humanly possible. Romney is a sociopathic narcissist, just like most of the billionaires and multi-millionaires in this country. It's all about THEM. Everything for them. All assets going to them and nobody else. This man is the poster child for everything that's dragging our nation down the drain. The top 1% have a zillion times more than they will ever need, all at the expense of everyone else. Time to CUT THEM OFF.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <i>An elected official you can't cheat on your taxes and get elected.</i> Exactly. And that's why his tax returns are of interest.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>This man thinks that millionaires are the elite in society who should be able to do whatever the hell they want.<< The very definition of an oligarchy. And almost half the country is going to vote for this monster and hat he stands for. Simply unbelievable.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Releasing tax returns is NOT a legal requirement for running for POTUS. If he had ever been charged with violating a law in connection with his returns that would be on the public record. With the army of accountants and lawyers he has working for him I really doubt he ever did anything illegal. I'm sure he used every loophole in the books to minimize his taxes, but hell... do we really need to see his returns to know that? His own WORDS show how he feels about the wealthy paying taxes. You guys really are starting to sound like the birthers. He released the second year of returns (which is what he had indicated he would do... he never promised more than that) and now you want more years. If he released more years you would want to see the supporting documentation. If he released the supporting documentation you would want a notarized statement from the IRS that the information he released was identical to what was actually submitted. As with the birthers, nothing would ever be enough for you. Do you REALLY need to see his returns to know what kind of man he is? I sure as hell don't!!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If he had ever been charged with violating a law in connection with his returns that would be on the public record. > No, it wouldn't. That was the whole point of the 2009 amnesty. The government agreed to waive criminal penalties AND keep your name secret, if you admitted guilt and paid what you owed. For most people, that's fine. I don't need to know their names. But Romney is running for President - that's kind of a special case. Also, I'm sorry to see you buying into the argument in your penultimate paragraph. It's certainly not true for me. If he simply released the by-now-traditional 8 - 12 years of tax returns, I'd be satisfied with that and wouldn't expect anything more. But he won't. He has made the calculation that there's SOMETHING in there more damaging to him than the damage he's sustaining by not releasing them. And it can't just be more years of 13-15% effective rates; that would just garner a giant yawn. It's got to be something else.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Road Trip, Romney is creating this firestorm himself. By refusing to divulge what has become the norm for presidential race, he's solely responsible for this mess. What's particularly galling is this process was started by his father. Romney started out with an image of extreme aloofness, and he hasn't done one damn thing to humanize himself.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But he won't. He has made the calculation that there's SOMETHING in there more damaging to him than the damage he's sustaining by not releasing them. And it can't just be more years of 13-15% effective rates; that would just garner a giant yawn. It's got to be something else.>> I don't think that is necessarily the case. Was Obama trying to hide something by taking so long to release his "long form" birth certificate? No, he just felt he shouldn't have to satisfy every demand of the Tea Party and probably knew it wouldn't satisfy their doubts anyway (which it hasn't). Other prominent politicians have refused to release their tax returns... Senator Ted Kennedy among them. Was Kennedy trying to hide something? I doubt... he just felt it was really no one's damned business. Which it wasn't.
