Originally Posted By wahooskipper I don't feel sympathy for the victim so much as I do the victim's family. But, there is no doubt that she and her family knew that working with animals carries risk. Being an NFL player carries risk. But, when a player dies (as has been the case) they don't fold up the league. I believe Jack Hanna said that 85-90% of the killer whales in the Sea World parks were born in the Sea World parks. They could not be expected to survive in the wild anyway. So, if using the whales to entertain as well as educate the public as to the marvels of that species is the plan then I don't have a problem with that. I want to be sure they are treated well, and are in enclosures/confines/exhibit facilities that are appropriate based on zoological research...but I suspect that there are species in the wild that have not gone extinct because of research and awareness efforts made by zoos, aquariums, etc.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I don't feel sympathy for the victim so much as I do the victim's family.< You have sympathy for the victim's family, but you don't much care that an intelligent and capable young woman lost her life to a creature that she had devoted so much time and energy learning about? I don't get that . . .
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I believe Jack Hanna said that 85-90% of the killer whales in the Sea World parks were born in the Sea World parks. They could not be expected to survive in the wild anyway>> I'm not sure I buy that. Domesticated cats and dogs often end up in the wild, and manage to do just fine. Wy would it necessarily be any different for whales? <<if using the whales to entertain as well as educate the public as to the marvels of that species is the plan then I don't have a problem with that.>> I can only ape what SpokkerJones wrote: "they can continue to rescue and rehabilitate animals. Make that the focus. Make that the show. Some animals really can't return to the wild for various reasons. Those animals can become ambassadors to the wild. But making them do tricks is stupid. These animals are interesting enough on their own. That wild animals are our playthings is not the right message to send."
Originally Posted By bloona <<According to the CNN story I just saw, he also was trained to swim around and splash the crowd with his huge tail. They also mentioned his stud services, and said that he's worth millions.>> so it sounds as if it was the huge one that they get out at the end to just splash the crowd and then pose on the platform at the end for photos????
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Of course I'm sorry she died...I just can't really feel sympathetic to a person who is dead. My guess is that she would be horrified if she heard there was talk of getting rid of this whale or putting blame on this whale. And I'm quite sure she was passionate about the role Sea World plays in environmental education...even acknowledging that entertainment plays a role in that. And, I don't think it is been suggested anywhere that this particular animal was really involved in the "show" at all outside of coming in and making a big splash. I was at SWO not long ago and I'm sure I saw this whale because it was obvious how much bigger it was than all the others. The only "show" thing it did, if I'm not mistaken, was come out and splash water at the very end. As for returning a whale to the wild, didn't they undertake a pretty huge and costly attempt to do that with the whale from Free Willy? And, if memory serves, it never really got reasssimilated, if you will, and died in a bay near Norway.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I stand corrected. I just looked at local affiliate WESH website and they have a video posted by a tourist of the end of the "dine with Shamu" event that happened right before the accident. The video shows this huge whale doing some behaviors and, toward the end, the trainer is in the water (about up to her knees) with the whale. That makes me wonder if she was following proper procedures with this particular animal. (Though some of the behaviors certainly looked to be a standard part of that dine with Shame experience.) I suspect we will hear more.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I wonder if some of the trainers develop weird infatuations with the dolphins they work with and break protocol because hey, I know this animal more than anyone else.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "The only "show" thing it did, if I'm not mistaken, was come out and splash water at the very end." Sounds like this orca had a good thing going for himself. He doesn't have to do a lot of heavy lifting in the shows and gets to make a kill every once and a while.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones T-Rex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. It's debatable what T-Rex actually did, but that's the gist of it.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "That's kinda what I implied in #32." Actually, what I was going to say is, I wonder whether or not these trainers ever fall in love with these animals and develop crazy relationships with them that are only in their minds.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I saw this show on BBC America about people who have sexual feelings towards inanimate objects like fences, bridges, buildings etc., so I can believe some trainers could fall in love with their animals.
Originally Posted By danyoung >o it sounds as if it was the huge one that they get out at the end to just splash the crowd and then pose on the platform at the end for photos????< Umm, yeah, that's what the big Shamu was used for, for better or worse. >Of course I'm sorry she died...I just can't really feel sympathetic to a person who is dead. My guess is that she would be horrified if she heard there was talk of getting rid of this whale or putting blame on this whale. And I'm quite sure she was passionate about the role Sea World plays in environmental education...even acknowledging that entertainment plays a role in that.< wahooskipper, we're on the same page.
Originally Posted By danyoung trekkeruss, shame on you. I understand the show you saw, and the really warped relationships people come up with. But you can't really believe some nutjob who loves his stapler can be compared to a trainer who loves her trainee. OF COURSE these trainers love their subjects, and there's nothing unholy or uncool about that. And I don't think there's anything in the evidence in this case to indicate that the trainer did anything wrong. She was interacting with a wild animal, and it suddenly went into animal behavior. It's nothing but sad.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I don't think there's anything in the evidence in this case to indicate that the trainer did anything wrong. She was interacting with a wild animal, and it suddenly went into animal behavior. It's nothing but sad.>> I think the evidence points to the fact that trainers really shouldn't be interacting with wild animals in the first place. It's one thing to keep the animals mentally stimulated for health reasons, but touching them as if they are pets is what led to this tragedy.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "OF COURSE these trainers love their subjects, and there's nothing unholy or uncool about that." A problem occurs if they lose their connection with reality and forget they are working with wild animals, not their best friend. "It's nothing but sad." I don't find it sad. It's what I expect to happen at Sea World every few years.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper People die on amusement park rides every few years. Maybe we should shut down Disney and the rest of the parks. This is a subject people will just never agree on. But, the trainers at Sea World I'm sure are mourning and I'm sure they are also anxious to get back to the work that they love.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder From everything I've read and the trainers we know in San Diego, this whale has been confirmed to have killed only once before. The second person did obviously die, but since this was an interloper who apparently jumped in with the whale after hours, it can't be conclusively said the whale killed him or he provoked the whale. Sea World isn't going to put down this whale. Things happen. The trainer knew the risks. If anything, there will be a no ponytail or no anything else rule so as not to provoke the whales.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Sea World isn't going to put down this whale.>> Of course not. It's worth too much to them.
