Originally Posted By markymouse I'll avoid the long, geeky list of attractions I'd arm chair imagineer and share one idea that sums up where Disney could go, vs where it is. At Animal Kingdom, the dinosaur midway area is a joke. OK. That's a given. But imagine what should be there. Imagine a universe in which people routinely say "Oh, wow, I can't wait to see what Disney can do with that" rather than "Oh, god, what are they taking out now." Then imagine you've just learned, in this world of Disney success and imagination, that Disney is doing a dinosaur area in Animal Kingdom. If any organization in the world can make it feel like you're really looking at a zoo full of dinosaurs, Disney should be it. Not a 90 second break from two hours of Ellen joking about how dumb she is. Not 60 seconds of dinosaurs lurching out of the dark while you suffer whiplash from a Indy clone that tries to recover from its inferiority complex by proving how violent its ride vehicles can be. But a Kilamanjaro Safari type ride with dinosaurs seemingly wandering through forests of fern trees. Even better, in my humble opinion, is what Disney could do with prehistoric mammals. Herds of real ice age looking creatures (Przewalski's horses, European bison, tapirs, saigas, fallow deer, etc.) liberally sprinkled with animatronic mammoths, smiladons, terror birds, cave bears, dire wolves, etc. If anyone could do that, its the Disney that gave us Pirates of the Caribbean and Kilimanjaro Safari. But sadly, not the Disney that gave us Primeval Whirl and the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<But sadly, not the Disney that gave us Primeval Whirl and the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh.>> Primeval Whirl sucks, yea. But what's with the Pooh hate? It's a good dark ride.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<But what's with the Pooh hate? It's a good dark ride.>> While it might compare favorably to the other dark rides in Fantasyland, I have always felt that Disney went cheap on this one. There's no reason why they couldn't have built this ride with more advanced animatronics and effects. Just because the other Fantasyland rides use old technology, that doesn't mean that all new attractions in that area must do the same.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It's a good dark ride.<<< Especially now, with the queue. Great ride.
Originally Posted By markymouse I like Pooh, but it is pretty sparse. The animatronics don't remind you of bears or stuffed animals. They're too clearly plastic. They lack the range of character in Pirate's animatronics. It's not a terrible ride, but it uses too many 2-D effects (especially in the dream sequence) and too simple animatronics, in my opinion. I'm speaking mainly based on the Disneyland version. I've only been on the WDW version once, a couple of years ago, and don't know it well.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 give me a few new countries in World Showcase - the subs that DL got and a knock your socks off E ticket for MK
Originally Posted By avimagine I'm pretty sure vb means what I do, with each country have at least a C-Ticket attraction. Be it a dark ride, or boat ride, a walkthrough or something relative to the country. How about some Spanish Aero cars going across the water If MK can't have the buckets... Preferably more than just a film. Also that Coaster for Canada should be built
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ absolutely agree-- look at Norway..all should have something at that level
Originally Posted By avimagine Oh and no Dining Plans at the restaurants. Let them have a full menu. Heh
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ please don't take my tables in wonderland away -- I agree with no 'free dining' crap...but paying for an AP and then paying to TIW-- really helps with a party of 9- and the tip for the waiter still comes off of original amount.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Just curious, VBDAD, but between DVC discounts and AP ones, do you really still feel DDE (what I will always call it) is worth it? I gave up my card in 2008 because I just didn't see the value anymore. Of course, I already have my restaurant.com certificates for Garden Grove, Il Mulino, Bluezoo, House of Blues and Giraffe Cafe for my next few visits as well as a B-Day certificate for Via Napoli. Between that and a few 40% lunches with CM friends, I think I dine better now than I did with DDE.
Originally Posted By avimagine Semi related what I don't think most people realize is "free" really means Package priced. They can't seem to understand it's just marketing. What your really doing is paying for the "average meal plus desired markup". They also can't seem to understand what it means is the more costly meals go bye-bye, and everything is streamlined to increase efficiency when producing said "free meal". Also the average person really isn't that adventurous. So when it comes to variety you end up losing unique food items and go for the 95th percentile humans taste. How many Americans/Canadians ever order Indian food authentically spicy. How many of us feel Chicken balls not chicken feet is authentic Chinese cooking? Then as noted this has the added "benefit" of bottlenecking restaurants. We're really Cafeteriaing (there new word) these sit down establishments. Now if you deduct the cost of the meals from my "package" and let me pay for what I really want then I'll average it out. I may buy a really really good steak, but maybe just get a burger the next time. I'll enjoy my Good steak much more then 2 mediorce meals.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>the subs that DL got and a knock your socks off E ticket for MK<<< I've said it before and I'll say it again, there was a reason why the 20K lagoon and show building was leveled when it was. After 8+ years of sitting there all of a sudden it is gone and replaced by a tiny little playground. What a coincidence that within a few months of that happening, Disneyland announces a new sub ride to "find" Nemo. In the possible words of Mark Twain...'the WDWers would have insisted that they get one as well, don't cha know!' But, by some strange alignment of the planets, every working part of 20K was gone, gone, gone. You do the math...just dumb luck? I think not. OK, rant over. It's just that with all its glorious fakeness, I really enjoyed the sub ride. Sadly, the only opportunity I would ever have had to ride Nemo was in 2005 and it wasn't open yet. I have to be content with riding it via You Tube.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^Just curious, VBDAD, but between DVC discounts and AP ones, do you really still feel DDE (what I will always call it) is worth it? -------------- for me yes as it is usually the difference between 10% off and 20% off..and remember that when we are there the dining party is 9, so the extra 10% adds up real quickly and in the trip usually pays for the DDE card and at .east 1/2 the AP. Now if it was say 2 of us, between the AP cost ( and I only go once a year)- and DDE- no- I think it could be a losing proposition 9 people Cali grill- avg $60 each w/ wine ( remembering 3 are kids) - $540 the diff between a DVC discount ( if they had one for Cali) and DDE is $54- pays for the DDE card by itself
Originally Posted By sjhym333 20K had its share of troubles in terms of leaking subs, diesel fuel that was ruining the filtration system, etc. I was a mgr in Fantasyland while 20K was still running and there were days we couldnt open because you couldnt see out the portholes 2 feet because of murky water. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Dont believe the hype that Jim Hill among others throw out about a conspiracy to shut 20K by park mgrs.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>20K had its share of troubles in terms of leaking subs, diesel fuel that was ruining the filtration system, etc. I was a mgr in Fantasyland while 20K was still running and there were days we couldnt open because you couldnt see out the portholes 2 feet because of murky water. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Dont believe the hype that Jim Hill among others throw out about a conspiracy to shut 20K by park mgrs.<< I for one don't. But I think Goof is pretty close to the point in his opinion. That there was a spur of the moment rush, after 10 years of the parcel laying dormant, to rip it out and immediately replace it with Home Depot boxed gardens. By December 2003, it was evident that the decision was localized out of Orlando and was not due to better projects for that spot called for by Burbank. At the time, I was fortunate enough to be around the folks who were responsible for DL's Nemo subs and the idea of this operating in MK's Fantasyland was not just a byproduct of fanboy imagineering. Nevertheless, I don't doubt your point for a minute Sjhym. My beef is how they responded after issues had come to light that called out for an overhaul, both while you were there and then during their analysis in 2003. The lengths they went to in rehabilitating the DL lagoon/show building for the long run, and also changing the subs' power source is what use to be the norm for Disney. Back in 2003, this reeked of them continuing to take the easy way out on every set of options they had before them. At about the same time end-2003 the decision was made to slowly work Nemo into TLS (prior to TurtleTalk). I guess it was a sound strategy to re-purpose and breathe new life into TLS, but I do believe the notion that, in the strictest sense, they didn't want any reason to keep MK's lagoon
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I wholeheartedly believe that Disney mishandled the whole 20K situation from the start. There was a time when there was a real effort to fix the problems at 20K including a redesign of the loading/unloading hatches to help keep the subs from taking on water. It failed. The reality was that a couple of the subs were basically sinking even before the sttraction was closed. There were 2 guys assigned just to work on the fiberglass to keep the things afloat. 20K became a victim of an upper management team who did not see the important classic attraction and an Imagineering department that was being neutered.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer It's the same with Horizons... Without money coming in, they wanted it closed.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper 20K sucked. Sorry people but that ride was so lame. *brutally honest*
