Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Imagine my surprise that when riding the Hydrolators years later, both sets of doors accidently opened at the same time when it "stopped". I then realized it was just an illusion, but it was an effective illusion. I knew we weren't traveling "hundreds of feet" below the ocean's surface, but figured we were at least moving from the top floor of the pavilion to the bottom floor.<<< That is exactly the same reaction my X had when she saw from the Skyway that the subs didn't actually submerge. It's funny how much our brains will allow us to imagine with just a few external clues. The hydrolators were not very high tech but they did the job.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>You know, it's funny. I was a young adult when Living Seas opened. I knew that the Hydrolators were never "real", but I always thought they were real elevators going from one floor to the next (like Disneyland's Haunted Mansion), especially since the Living Seas pavilion is two stories inside. Imagine my surprise that when riding the Hydrolators years later, both sets of doors accidently opened at the same time when it "stopped". I then realized it was just an illusion, but it was an effective illusion. I knew we weren't traveling "hundreds of feet" below the ocean's surface, but figured we were at least moving from the top floor of the pavilion to the bottom floor.<<< Like I said... it was so real. WDI doesn't do that type of illusioneering these days.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>20K had its share of troubles in terms of leaking subs, diesel fuel that was ruining the filtration system, etc. I was a mgr in Fantasyland while 20K was still running and there were days we couldnt open because you couldnt see out the portholes 2 feet because of murky water. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Dont believe the hype that Jim Hill among others throw out about a conspiracy to shut 20K by park mgrs.<< <<I for one don't. But I think Goof is pretty close to the point in his opinion. That there was a spur of the moment rush, after 10 years of the parcel laying dormant, to rip it out and immediately replace it with Home Depot boxed gardens. By December 2003, it was evident that the decision was localized out of Orlando and was not due to better projects for that spot called for by Burbank. At the time, I was fortunate enough to be around the folks who were responsible for DL's Nemo subs and the idea of this operating in MK's Fantasyland was not just a byproduct of fanboy imagineering. Nevertheless, I don't doubt your point for a minute Sjhym. My beef is how they responded after issues had come to light that called out for an overhaul, both while you were there and then during their analysis in 2003. The lengths they went to in rehabilitating the DL lagoon/show building for the long run, and also changing the subs' power source is what use to be the norm for Disney. Back in 2003, this reeked of them continuing to take the easy way out on every set of options they had before them. At about the same time end-2003 the decision was made to slowly work Nemo into TLS (prior to TurtleTalk). I guess it was a sound strategy to re-purpose and breathe new life into TLS, but I do believe the notion that, in the strictest sense, they didn't want any reason to keep MK's lagoon>> GREAT to see my old buddy, ChiMike posting again. Thought you had fallen off the earth ... and I do agree with the above. Subs had issues, but not ones that couldn't have been dealt with. It was cheaper to just rip them out, let the lagoon sit (eventually not clorinating it so it became an attraction for bugs, some that sting and carry disease) and eventually rip it out for a McDonald's level (or worse) playground. Bad, all around.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<20K sucked. Sorry people but that ride was so lame. *brutally honest*>> Just an opinion. I would disagree, but add it was certainly hokey (sorry!) near the end. But a lot could have been done. The dry for wet version at TDS is just great (and I don't understand much Japanese either!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Considering I didn't have a good perspective at the time to understand the full ramifications of the changes going on at EPCOT Center, I would be as bold to say that the period between 1994-1996 dealing with 20K was the first time I thought something was fundamentally wrong with Orlando management. We had Indy, ToT new resorts, etc.. so in the grand scheme of things it looked like the domestic parks had never been better, but the 20K issue was the first issue large enough, for me I guess, that I finally saw the writing on the wall to how folks in Orlando wanted to manage the property. A lot of small operational cuts and pleasantries started occurring right after for a host of reasons, some due to growth of the resort.>> Oh yeah, great point. I too thought it strange that 20K was just sitting there in '94, but I was also very excited by ToT and Sunset Blvd opening at the Studios and WL (got to spend the first 10 days it was open there), so I kind of glossed over it ... I never thought Disney was lying when they said it was under refub ...well, for two years anyway. But really, looking back, it was the first canary in the coal mine about TDO. Soon enough we had the new Tomorrowland open, which was very nice, but only covered the first half. Then we had the never-ending 25th Anniversary that gave us a song you couldn't get out of your head, a horrible pink castle and an attraction at Epcot that was troubled from the start and opened 18 months late (TT). From then on it's largely been one disappointment after another with a few nice things tossed in the mix. I never really thought about it until reading your post, but shutting down the subs and leaving nothing in '94 was definitely the point WDW began its long slide.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We could say a lot about the mgmt of the Orlando property, but it's better that we don't. >> Why?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The homogenization of merchandise was a corporate decision and part of the one world/one park initative.>> It's BS plain and simple. People do NOT visit Disney Parks: The Place Where Dreams Come True and Magic Lives and Now, Celebrate Today with a Magical Gathering featuring The Magic, The Memories and YOU! This is Walmarting. Dumb it all down. Make everything the same bland branded crap. Vomit inducing ... <<You can see it in merchandise, things like napkins and cups, even commercials.>> Well, not in Tokyo ... can you believe they even come out with things like seasonal shopping bags? <<I was watching a for Disney in which the voiceover was talking about WDW but contained pictures from DL and DLP. So you know that it is being used around the world with different voiceovers. This was all part of Rasulo's plan when he was in charge of the parks. I think he may have done more to damage the Disney theme park experience more than any other person before him.>> It started under Paul, but JR definitely has done more harm than anyone. And yet, there he was sitting next to The Weatherman, like his lap dog, as CFO at the launch of the Dream. It disgusts me that man has any role at the company. I have yet to find ONE person at Disney with anything good to say about him. Not one. That hasn't ever happened with ANY other exec, by a long shot.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The same thing happened to me with the Living Seas... Those Hydrolators were moving for all that I knew.>> I wasn't a kid (almost) when Seas opened and I, obviously, knew I wasn't traveling to the ocean's bottom with the hydrolators. But the effect allowed me to suspend my disbelief because it was so effective. Same thing just happened when I rode JTTCoTE at TDS. You, ostensibly, travel down deep into the earth to board your ride vehicle. I knew it wasn't real, but it sure allows you to believe it ...
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>From then on it's largely been one disappointment after another with a few nice things tossed in the mix.<<< I have to disagree there... ...as always... because you ALWAYS gloss over the Millennium Celebration. LOL. If anything, that was Disney's las great event. It wasn't focused on ~*~Pixie Dust~*~, dreams, magic and memories, but was so succinct in capturing a moment in time, a mood, and a sublime optimism that we haven't seen since then. Sure, things were starting to go downhill before 99/00, (I mean, that's the year we loose JII, Horizons, Toad...) but it seems that they really wanted to take the parks, especially EPCOT, in a very fresh, new direction. Then, 2001 hit and all that went down the tubes.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, I adored the Millenium Festival, and it helped me think WDW was the greatest place on the planet. Man, that now seems so long ago.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Agreed, I adored the Millenium Festival, and it helped me think WDW was the greatest place on the planet. Man, that now seems so long ago.<<< Yeah, it really brought of a new level of class and sophistication to the place. EPCOT felt so revitalized and central to the idea of the Millennium.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>SO SE should have the wand reinstalled with "2000" on it? <<< Hell no. But it was a great promotional, celebratory addition, that just outstayed it's meaning and welcome.
Originally Posted By avimagine Well there was the Year of a Million Dreams... Maybe Disney should uh celebrate celebrations only once every five years and just have true "yearly" marketning schemes that maybe actually last a year? (Or what was it the volunteer one ended early?)
Originally Posted By GOB Maybe somebody could correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lee Cockerell have a hand in killing 20K when he took over as attractions in 1994?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Well there was the Year of a Million Dreams... Maybe Disney should uh celebrate celebrations only once every five years and just have true "yearly" marketning schemes that maybe actually last a year? (Or what was it the volunteer one ended early?)<<<> Or maybe celebrate real events? Like their 40th anniversary? Sigh.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "I was watching a for Disney in which the voiceover was talking about WDW but contained pictures from DL and DLP. So you know that it is being used around the world with different voiceovers." That's not new. For DECADES here in Australia just about EVERY time there is a competition to "Win a trip to DISNEYLAND in the YEW-ESS!!!" they pretty much ALWAYS show Cinderella's castle. I always had this idea that if I won, I'd DEMAND I get to see THAT castle and then they'd have to fly me to Orlando and I could see FOUR parks for the price of(then)one!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "Then, 2001 hit and all that went down the tubes." Hush your mouth! That's the year *I* went!!!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Hush your mouth! That's the year *I* went!!! <<< I was there, too. Last year before my hiatus...
