Originally Posted By ChurroMonster ~~~Wow, 2oony. Calm down, man. It's not like she tried to get you to watch The Goonies. ~~~ Best. Movie. Ever.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Sorry I am late to the party guys. Work has been very busy as has life - I have cystitis and kidney stones (they were testing me for cancer - no insurance required - 1 reason why I choose to live here), and sadly Mikey my 7 year old has a heart murmur and is being tested for autism. It has meant there is very little free time, and I am also likely to post things I may regret later if in a bad mood. A few people have asked questions as to why we chose to live in the UK and indeed if there is not anywhere within the 50 US states worth living. So many themes to answer on, where do I start? Well, let me start by saying that nowhere is perfect. And things can and do change. I must say I get annoyed when I hear Americans call the US the best country in the world, many of whom have never travelled, let alone lived outside of it. And many who have (not all) have either only been to border line 3rd world countries or have stayed in American chains/cruise ships. I found emigrating from California to the UK 24 years ago was a real eye opener. I learnt to appreciate some things I took for granted in the US (house sizes, weather and some of the biodiversity for example), but it also opened my eyes to how much propaganda and misunderstanding there, how little community spirit seems to exist under the vaneer of patriotism, how materialistic the place is. Now don't get me wrong, I can kvech about a lot of things that annoy me in Europe too. But we chose to raise our children in the UK for a number of reasons: 1. Guns are virtually non existant. Now I know there is a risk of shootings anywhere (we have had a couple here), but the proiferation of weapons per capita is nothing. Crime rates are also lower as although there is still poverty, the welfare state makes the need for crime less desperate. 2. Opportunity to open their minds. In the same sort of geographical area as the US, there are 22 different languages spoken and even more cultures. In terms of history, in our town, the local grocery store was built on land that was used as a meeting place 4000 years ago, the local church is 800 years old, and there is a lot of history locally. 3. Quality public services. To me, I would rather pay more tax and have good quality services. Social medicine (including braces), highly subsidised further education (my BSc was free and I had grants to help with living costs - sadly there are not the same opportunities now for them, but still tuition fees are 10% that of the US). Add in free museums, parks and grants for the arts, that to me is a great opportunity. 4. Work life balance. How many days does the average American get for vacations? 1 week? 2 weeks? None if in the first year of employment. In the UK, the average is 5 weeks a year. Kids grow up so fast, that I want to spend as much time as I can with them. And as you say, is there no where suitable. I would say for me, no. For cultural purposes, I would want to be near an international environment (think San Francisco/New York), but then the crime rate goes up. It is also unlikely with my academic discipline and career options that smaller communities would offer me the employment opportunities. And also, I cannot stand a lot of the popular sentiments in the US (I am not Christian, I am pro choice, I encourage immigration, I support public programmes etc.). That said, the same right wing xenophobia and will to reduce public spending is growing in the UK and it is very depressing. I think I would enjoy living somewhere like Germany most of all, but sadly it could be too difficult for my wife to make the transition as she does not speak German (though she says she will go where ever I would like). America is not the only free country in the world. In fact, I would argue there is even more liberty in many parts of Europe, especially for those from a humble background. A lot of American patriotism is jingoism, developed by 300 years of contemptable resentment of the old country. But the old country has moved on too. I am proud to be American, but more so I am proud to be a part of humanity. If we are in the US, I will stand as a part of my own personal nostalgia, and also as a sign of respect to those who are devout in their beliefs (like I will bow my head in church even though I am not Christian). But, the fervour that is used, sits less and less comfortably with me as I get older. As a child or in my early 20's, the unity of patriotism moved me greatly, but as I get older, I wonder if it is too much. I know during the Olympic Games, the US team due seem the most direspectful of others as they enter the arena, and the military men I have met in Africa, the middle east or in war torn Yugoslavia, the US troops were the most egotistical, disrespectful. Also having read many examples and spoken to elders in Europe about American conduct during and after WWII, I am not so quick to pass out praise. Let's just say the atrocities against humanity including the finding of women and boys in "liberated" Germany, were not things to be proud of. Of course there are many wonderful things America has done for itself and the world. There is real inspiration and the rest of the world in the main seems to want America to succeed, but I think there is much to think about. Just some thoughts for the day.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>how little community spirit seems to exist under the vaneer of patriotism<< A great line, and all too true. Thanks for your thoughts, Dave. Best wishes with you and your family's health issues.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Just some thoughts for the day." I'm going to play devil's advocate here. After all, my training is supposed to allow me to argue both sides. After reading all this, it is entirely reasonable for someone to say this is rather elitist ("I must say I get annoyed when I hear Americans call the US the best country in the world, many of whom have never travelled, let alone lived outside of it.") and that you really ought not to consider yourself an American anymore. Which is not to say you haven't come by your opinions honestly. I believe you have. But under the guise of seeing yourself as others see you, if some of our more fervent posters here were to take up a cause (I don't know who would though really, some have been banned), it is not an implausible thing to say to you.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 Thanks for your thoughts Dave - jingoism - perfect word for how I feel!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I consider myself a citizen of the world. The passport I carry doesn't define who I am.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan There was a guy this past summer who walked from Rockaway Beach, New York to Rockaway beach Oregon. His blog is still available online. (<a href="http://www.imjustwalkin.com" target="_blank">http://www.imjustwalkin.com</a>) After walking all that way for months, he was never the victim of any crime. No one tried to steal his cart of supplies. People regularly took him into their homes along the way, offering money or food or encouragement. People's generosity --total strangers -- was really inspiring to read about. Here's his closing thoughts: >>1) Have some faith in this world. Things aren’t as bad as they tell us. We may all have different political opinions and different religious beliefs and different cultural norms (I’m a liberal atheist Jew. Did you know that? Does it matter?), and many of us probably couldn’t stand to be around each other on a regular basis, but most of us would, as it turns out, extend a helping hand to a stranger in need. I walked 3100 miles across this country and didn’t encounter a single person who tried to hurt me, or steal from me, or damage my possessions. Maybe this isn’t a place that needs to be feared. Maybe it’s a place that needs to be explored, and appreciated, and celebrated. 2) There’s beauty everywhere. Keep your eyes open, and keep your mind open, and you’ll be amazed what’s out there, right under your nose, just waiting to be discovered. You don’t need to go to the Best This or the Most Spectacular That; just take a stroll around the neighborhood. I blindly followed directions from Google on my walk, making no effort to see anything special, and look at everything I found that I thought needed to be shared with the world!<<
Originally Posted By DAR ^^^ Great sentiments Though little side note, I never knew Rockaway Beach was a real place. I remember hearing a Ramones song about it. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6siGKxcKol0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...GKxcKol0</a> Thinking it was a place to go after Rock N Roll High School: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWyK5Hbh-Gc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...K5Hbh-Gc</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I remember the song. But I think every state with coastal access has a Rockaway Beach.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I find that it's very difficult to not be cynical of just about everything in this world. With that said, I hope you don't think I'm trying to corner you Dave. Thanks for that post Kar2oonMan. Those sentiments sort of elaborate on what I was alluding to in post 127.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***you really ought not to consider yourself an American anymore*** Wow. Would you say the same if he still lived in the U.S.? This "un-American" witchhunt of the past 10 years is getting stale. The America I grew up in revered freedom of speech.
Originally Posted By mele I don't think SPP was saying he agreed, just that he thought some people would view Dave that way.
Originally Posted By mele I've never understood why some people seem to feel that to be truly patriotic, you have to feel like the USA is the #1 kick-butt country in the world and everyone else sucks and can bask in our glory or go straight to Hell. Screw you, world, yooouuu suuuuck. We'll put a boot in your butt cos it's the American Way. Can't I just be proud of my country and still respect other countries? I don't think many Americans get that concept.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Can't I just be proud of my country and still respect other countries?<<< This is how I feel too Mele. But really I feel displaced. I have been told by some Americans I should revoke my citizenship, and yet after living here for 24 years, I do not feel fully accepted either. It is quite depressing really. But nationality is almost a freak of nature, many of us do not have a say where we are born. There are many amazing facets of the entire world. And really, I would love more of a United Federation of Planets approach. Today we went to Silverstone, the British home of the Grand Prix, for the Renault World Championships. There were teams and spectators from all over Europe, as well as India, Japan and Brazil. When the British driver took pole in the last race of the day, it meant they waved the Union Jacks and played God Save The Queen. No one stood, but they clapped respectfully at the end (same when the LAtvian National Anthem was played at the end of the race). And my son, aged 7 turned to me as said "Daddy, why are they playing that music?". It made me think of this thread - and that was an international competition.
Originally Posted By oredisneyfan I always stand and put my hand over my heart....I dont sing along. I dont know about everywhere else but here when ever they announce the National Anthem, sung or a played recording, they always ask us to "please stand" so everyone does. Being a sports fan of all kinds and having an ex athlete husband and two very active kids in sports, plus a daughter who has been singing the National Anthem since she was 3 and is now 16 I have definately seen my share. I have yet to see a team continue to warm up while it is being played??
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Can't I just be proud of my country and still respect other countries?<< Works for me!
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///many of us do not have a say where we are born./// Wouldn't EVERYONE not have a say as to where he/she was born??? I mean I've heard about Mom's who have talked to their young who are still inside the womb but do the two really communicate with each othere so clearly that Mom knows where her boy/girl wants to be born??? OK, I admit that I am being difficult again ;D
