Originally Posted By WilliamK99 . Think back to the panic of Sept. 2008. Who knew how we'd ever get out of that mess?<< I think that's my biggest problem, I lived in Germany for the past 6 years and was removed from how bad things were in 2008, since it didn't affect me at all, I figured people overreacted by how bad it was. Seeing as how bad things still are here in the states, I could only imagine how bad is was 4 years ago with the economy.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<Kar2oonMan, I think you may have just summed up one of the primary differences between Republican and Democratic voters - or at least the underlying party platforms. Don't forget that Republicans view corporations are "people", and since people vote for what's in their best interest, well...>> Interesting point, Hans. But those of us who work for corporations should want our corporations do well, right? Don't these corporations employ a lot of people? And aren't most of our investments in corporations? Not sure I understand this demonization of corporations....and I'm not a Republican.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Well right now because I live on my own I have to put what's best for me first. If I had a family I'd put what I felt was best for my family. If it happens to be what's best for the rest of the country great.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 So those saying they want what's best for the country... If a candidate supported something that would end up costing you your job, but it was best for the country, you would vote for that candidate? I call BS on that..
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But those of us who work for corporations should want our corporations do well, right?" No one is saying that corporations shouldn't perform well. I'm a capitalist just like you. "Don't these corporations employ a lot of people? And aren't most of our investments in corporations?" Does that make them people, entitled to the same rights and protections as ordinary citizens? Given how much money, power, and influence corporations have, giving them the freedom to manipulate the process with their wealth is a dangerous proposition. "Not sure I understand this demonization of corporations...." I find this comment fascinating. "I call BS on that.." Call it what you want. You have no problem understanding what's being said here.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> But those of us who work for corporations should want our corporations do well, right?<< We do. Unfortunately, corporations will still offshore jobs, even when they are doing very well.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>So those saying they want what's best for the country<< I am reminded of the soldiers who stormed the beaches of France on D-Day. It sure wasn't in their best personal interest, yet they did it.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Or the thousands of brave military men and women who signed up for the armed forces following 9/11. Hell, what about the people who ran into those burning towers in New York? I doubt they were thinking "let me go in here and save somebody because this is going to be in my best interest".
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Or the thousands of brave military men and women who signed up for the armed forces following 9/11. Hell, what about the people who ran into those burning towers in New York? I doubt they were thinking "let me go in here and save somebody because this is going to be in my best interest".<< I was talking about voting...
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<>> But those of us who work for corporations should want our corporations do well, right?<< We do. Unfortunately, corporations will still offshore jobs, even when they are doing very well.>> And they will bring them back to the U.S. if it makes sense to do so. If you owned a widget company and it costs you $10 to make a widget in the U.S. and send it to China for sale, Or it costs you $1 to make it in China and sell it there, what would you do? It's economics, not an evil agenda. And it's probably not always going to be that way considering the "cheap" labor in developing countries is becoming more expensive every day.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>If a candidate supported something that would end up costing you your job, but it was best for the country, you would vote for that candidate?<< I doubt I'd be in that situation, but I'd like to think I would. There are bond measures on the ballot that would increase funding to public schools. Even though my kids are now out of public school, I support those measures. My grandparents lived through the Great Depression and taught my parents and the grandkids about doing things for the greater good, sacrificing and so forth. Americans are quite generous basically, and are not driven by their own self interest. I don't get in the voting booth and twist my mustache and think differently. I really do try to think about which candidates are best for my community, state, country.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<Does that make them people, entitled to the same rights and protections as ordinary citizens? Given how much money, power, and influence corporations have, giving them the freedom to manipulate the process with their wealth is a dangerous proposition.>> Ok Hans, I see your point. And I agree with you that corporations should not be treated as people for sakes of campaign finance. But corporations aren't the only non-people with an inordinate amount of power in politics. I mean, just look at who controls everything in California.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It's economics, not an evil agenda." Agreed. Which is why corporations need controls. It's no different than saying either we allow people the freedom to drive however and wherever they want, or we build roads and establish traffic rules.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I was talking about voting...<< I'm talking about everything including voting. If everything is viewed through the prism of "What's in MY best interest?" all the time, that'd be a very grim existence. Once the zombie apocalypse hits, okay, whole new ballgame. But until then, it's okay to think of other people, too.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda See, this is the problem with society today. It's all about ME, ME, ME. It didn't use to. It used to be WE, WE, WE. People looked out for other people. Heck many of us refuse to even talk to our neighbors because they aren't ME.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It's economics, not an evil agenda<< It is evil, because those widgets can be made profitably in the US. It's unbridled greed that offshores jobs. It's also economic suicide. Every other country in the world has an industrial policy and they jealously protect their job base.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 It's also economic suicide. Every other country in the world has an industrial policy and they jealously protect their job base.<< On that I agree, but the lobbyists have taken over DC , and both sides are corrupt and in the pocket of big business...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It is evil, because those widgets can be made profitably in the US." I think this isn't necessarily true. There are certain types of manufacturing that the US will probably never really be able to compete with because the wages and benefits that are offered to foreign workers are just too low.
