Originally Posted By Mr X ***>>I could be angry that DL isn't run with the same professionalism and care as TDL (duh), but it seems pretty relative when you think about it. << I have no idea what this statement means.*** It means Disneyland sucks bigtime, with a capital "S" and more ucks...compared to the Tokyo Disney Resort, in almost every measurable way. So I find it extremely funny that you hold THAT up as the kind of quality that Florida should live up to. They both suck, relatively speaking of course, so my point was to take them for what they are...America lost it's good old fashioned customer service values a LONG time ago, and not just in Disney parks. I hate weakness and complacency as well, my friend. Why not then tear into Disneyland as you do DisneyWorld rather than hold up something so relatively pathetic as a model for what you want? (and yes, for the rest, this post WAS bombastic and over the top and even a tad silly...much like MousDad's posts, in order to make my point clearer for him since he didn't see to get it last time around )
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In 1992 the MK had 11.5 million visitors; in 2009 it was 17.5 million, almost a 50% increase. Clearly the development of the Value and Moderate resorts during the 90's allowed a great many more people to come to WDW. As far as I’m concerned that is a GOOD thing. But any time you increase attendance by that much in a park the experience will be somewhat diminished. It just isn't possible to maintain the same level of cleanliness and 'perfection' with that many more visitors no matter how many additional people you hire*** Sorry RoadTrip, but I have to disagree with you on this one. In fact, I was working at Tokyo Disneyland the year before DisneySea opened, it was a recordbreaker...18 million or so guests iirc... The cleanliness and perfection were the same as always. Now, if you want to argue diminished guest experience due to crowded conditions, that's another story and it does happen (and isn't all that fun whether in Tokyo or Florida or DCA...er, wait a sec...lol). ***Add to that the general decline in the civility and public behavior of Americans over the past 20 years and you are going to have issues. It is not just a WDW problem; it is an American problem*** I would say THIS is the problem you are seeing, much more than the simple fact the numbers are up. You CAN make adjustments, hire more, make plans for it (lots of training, which I'm not sure goes on in Florida all that much compared to over here), but if it's a downhill cultural slide you're pretty much screwed.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Maybe they should have just called it Pirates of the Gulf of Mexico*** Sponsored by British Petroleum!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You CAN make adjustments, hire more, make plans for it (lots of training, which I'm not sure goes on in Florida all that much compared to over here)>> Part of the problem is that unlike Anaheim (Los Angeles), Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong; Orlando is not a huge metropolitan area. They simply cannot hire enough good people. People get hired at WDW that would never be considered at the other parks. That is why (in my opinion) increased attendance impacts WDW more negatively than the other Disney resorts.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, that's a fair and interesting point. But it's also a *different* point than "It just isn't possible to maintain the same level of cleanliness and 'perfection' with that many more visitors". You kids need to skip one of those WDW/Cruise trips you take 6-8 times a year, and fly out here to Tokyo instead and see for yourselves.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You kids need to skip one of those WDW/Cruise trips you take 6-8 times a year, and fly out here to Tokyo instead and see for yourselves. >> Gee Dave, now that I'm retired I rely on DVC points to pay for the bulk of my vacations. Do they have a DVC resort at Tokyo yet??
Originally Posted By Mr X At the moment, no. However...there is a new DVC vacation center which seems geared towards sucking customers into the DVC from Japan MOSTLY on the new Hawaiian resort as a selling point (I think it's a teaser...they're hoping to ease Japanese customers into the whole pit of despair over time lol). Now, if that goes well, I would imagine they might figure out some way to give "bonus nights" at TDR Resorts, and if that were to pertain to international DVC folk, you'll be in luck. I'd say 18-24 months tops, so save up that airfare! Oh, and save an extra bunk room at the Tokyo Disneyland Hotel for ME, will ya!?
Originally Posted By xrayvision >>>> Construction walls and cranes were less noticeable at WDW, although the back portion of Fantasyland was under development. DLR's parks and DL hotel are experiencing major renovations throughout the entire resort, which is exciting yet not very eye pleasing. << Funny you mention it. My wife was disappointed that the FLE crane next to the Castle could be seen from Main Street. And from the Indy Speedway to Dumbo it felt like one continuous construction wall--which I took 4,000 pictures of. Wanna see?<< I agree with you that cranes could be easily when riding the ferry from TTC to the MK entrance. But, I didn't notice the cranes once I was in the park. On Main Street, I was enjoying the colorful Autumn garlands hung over the street and watching the entertainment characters, dressed in colorful Fall costumes, interact with guests including with me. I really enjoyed the streetmosphere on Main Street. You are right that there were walls up in FL but they were basically on one side of FL (with the exception of Pooh) as oppose to walking through a canyon of construction walls like in DCA when Mermaid and Paradise Pier Park/WOC were both under construction simultaneously. I totally understand that the walls are unavoidable with the DCA renovation and the DL Hotel redo. But, the all the construction (as exciting as it is) does make the DLR seem temporarily less visually desirable than MK and WDW, which has less encompassing in-park work being done at this time. And, I too have tons of pics and video of my recent WDW trip; but, the pics do not contain construction walls because there were plenty of wonderful places to take pics in the parks where upkeep was great and there were no construction walls in those areas. Sorry if you're unhappy that I had a positive experience at WDW Actually, I'm not sorry because I had a GREAT time!!!
Originally Posted By MousDad >>>It means Disneyland sucks bigtime, with a capital "S" and more ucks...compared to the Tokyo Disney Resort, in almost every measurable way. So I find it extremely funny that you hold THAT up as the kind of quality that Florida should live up to. They both suck, relatively speaking of course, so my point was to take them for what they are...America lost it's good old fashioned customer service values a LONG time ago, and not just in Disney parks. I hate weakness and complacency as well, my friend. Why not then tear into Disneyland as you do DisneyWorld rather than hold up something so relatively pathetic as a model for what you want? (and yes, for the rest, this post WAS bombastic and over the top and even a tad silly...much like MousDad's posts, in order to make my point clearer for him since he didn't see to get it last time around )<<< Yep, I misunderstood your praise of TDR as being defense of WDW. But I can't realistically dream of WDW being held to that standard (TDR), when they can't even achieve the DLR standard, right? And I still don't get why you think vocally demanding WDW be held to a higher standard is a waste of time, or too intense, or over the top. The calm, even-keeled "Well, things could be better but we all know that difficult decisions need to be made... business models dictate that....and marketing demos require....and you need to revisit Business 1010....etc. etc." is EXACTLY WHAT TDO (and P&R) WANTS TO HEAR.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<America lost it's good old fashioned customer service values a LONG time ago, and not just in Disney parks.>> Disney and 99% of other companies need to take their cues from Chick-Fil-A. The service at the Chick-Fil-A here is excellent: employees are friendly and welcoming, the restaurant is ridiculously clean, and the food is delicious. I love that the employees act like they value my business - that doesn't happen at McDonald's. To top it off, last night I wanted to get a refill on my drink, but the line was long and all the cashiers were taking orders. An employee was sitting behind me in the corner, on his dinner break. I stood off to the side and was debating whether or not to get in line when the guy on his break stopped eating and walked over to see if I needed a refill. He was pleasant, friendly, and smiling. That's customer service.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Seriously i am planning a trip to WDW very soon. I have to say I am more excited about just relaxing and visiting the world with all the extras<<< That's what Dec. will be for me. Not doing the run around... Just enjoying the place.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>><<Oh brother. The one at Disneyland is still the standard bearer by which all others are measured. WDW's does not even come close.>><<< First, opinion. Second, guess you hadn't read this. <a href="http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2010/06/case-for-florida-pirates.html" target="_blank">http://passport2dreams.blogspo...tes.html</a> Third, my opinion, I'd think that they are different enough to be appreciated in their own right.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I do have to say, EE, that in the posts of yours that I have read, you are not overtly negative in your criticisms. You're always pleasant while being critical and you don't have a maddening air of superiority. I for one appreciate that. <<< Well, thank you. Glad you think that. As for whom we are discussing... I know him personally. I consider him a very good friend. Like I said... It's a joke. But if it bothers you, the joking should stop, and there should be a PRIVATE exposition of this issue. Really guys...Don't like to see the dirty laundry aired for everyone to see. If you think this is a good neighborhood gone bad, you are just making it worse by making it personal. Just a thought and principle I try to live by. Do everything in private!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Part of the problem is that unlike Anaheim (Los Angeles), Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong; Orlando is not a huge metropolitan area. They simply cannot hire enough good people. People get hired at WDW that would never be considered at the other parks. That is why (in my opinion) increased attendance impacts WDW more negatively than the other Disney resorts.<<< Disagreed totally. With the CP, international programs, and everything else, I think there's a LOT of a good base for employment.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer And post 193 should be read in a *nice* voice... I'm not yelling at y'all. LOL.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Really guys...Don't like to see the dirty laundry aired for everyone to see. If you think this is a good neighborhood gone bad, you are just making it worse by making it personal. Just a thought and principle I try to live by. Do everything in private!>> It's not a joke, it's ugly. When he does it in public (and I'm not even talking about the pointed posts at me - I'm talking about the put downs of Southerners and branding everyone at the values as rednecks) and it bothers so many people, it should be addressed HERE.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 "Part of the problem is that unlike Anaheim (Los Angeles), Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong; Orlando is not a huge metropolitan area. They simply cannot hire enough good people. People get hired at WDW that would never be considered at the other parks. That is why (in my opinion) increased attendance impacts WDW more negatively than the other Disney resorts" That is just not true. Orlando has more than enough people for any company that is hiring to find good employees. The problem for Disney is much deeper than that. At one time Disney was considered one of the best employers in our area. I know most people know that at one time Disney hired one out of every ten people it interviewed. Growth at the resort obviously required that number to change. The problem today has to do with pay rates, availability and competition. An attraction CM starts at $7.65 an hour. Many people accept that position because they think that it is a starting point and they can move into better positions. The reality sets in quickly when they realise they cant live on under $300.00 a week after taxes. So many people begin to work a lot of overtime to make ends meet. It makes for a very long day and very long weeks. For many they realise that they have no personal life and decide that a change is needed. At one time if you stayed in attractions for 5 years you would top out in your pay class and be making an ok salary. However in the past decade or so the pay scale has been changed substantially so that it takes over 10 years to reach the top of your pay scale. For many the long days, low pay, the challenge of dealing with guests helps them decide that maybe Disney isn't the place for them in the long term. At the same time many other employers in the area have surpassed Disney in terms of pay for similar jobs. A local hotel hires front desk help at $10 an hour, the local Publix hires at $9 an hour to start. Even McDonald's starts at $8 and you dont have to travel 10-25 miles to get there. Because of all this factors Disney has a constant revolving door of CM's. 3 years ago I heard from a friend in Casting that they needed to hire over 300 people a week to stay even with people who were leaving in a given week. He said it they spent so much time keeping even that they found it hard fill the extra people an area needed. Things evened out some the past couple years as the economy has suffered, but even today Disney is struggling to keep up with filling positions. The guy who was looking for a job a year ago after being layed off somewhere is now making around $8.00 an hour at Disney (thanks to the pay scale) but he continues to look for a job that pays more money and when that job comes along they jump ship. Disney's answer to their employment issues has been the college and international program and even targeting senior citizen communities to shore up its employment needs. Three groups that have helped them to keep their CM ranks somewhat full, though each brings its own set of challenges. I was recently talking to a CM in his 70's who is working part time at EPCOT. He told me that he was leaving because Disney wants him to work more hours than he feels he can physically do. He felt his schedule mgr was not sympathetic to his needs and said he didnt need the job that bad. I know that the above may seem rambling and negative about Disney. It isnt meant to be really. My point is that Disney's hiring problems have less to do with our area and more to do with things both inside and outside the company. What can Disney do to help itself? Not much I am afraid. Disney is bound by union contracts that set pay scales. (Don't get me started on how the Disney unions have not served their members well). Disney cant control what the guy down the street is paying people and they control the fact that they are a drive for everyone in the area. Several years ago Disney created a position that put a psuedo-mgmt type of CM as a resource in each area to find ways to keep exisiting CM's in their roles. After 2 years the position was done away with. I think Disney realised that you cant make unhappy people stay. Right now Disney is in mediation with its union that represents their front line CM's. They are arguing over pay and benefits. Each time the contract is renegotiated, front line CM's tell me that it is frustrating to come out with a new contract that give them $.50 to $.75 over three years. Its hard to feel appreciated when that occurs.
Originally Posted By Krankenstein I'm a Southerner (born and raised in southeast Georgia), I'm a conservative, I've been called a redneck or country, but it doesn't bother me. It's simple words being said on the Internet of all places by someone that doesnt know you. I teach in a inner city school where I am called a racist and a hick, but it doesnt bother me because it is words. The people that really know you are the only opinions that matter at all. It isn't worth worrying about a comment someone says on the Internet or a random person that doesn't really know you says. Words can only hurt you if you let them. If you choose to not let them bother you, they are only words. Now, Im going to go book a weekend get away at Pop while I eat this here hamburger. ;-)
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///is preferable to living in...say, Louisiana/// ///I'm from New Orleans and I'm proud of it, regardless of Spirit's opinion of me or my hometown. Ya don't like it, don't come visit./// Well I heard Mr. Spirit sing about her Well I heard ol Spirit put her down Well I hope The Spirit will remember A southern gal don't need him around anyhow
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It's not a joke, it's ugly. When he does it in public (and I'm not even talking about the pointed posts at me - I'm talking about the put downs of Southerners and branding everyone at the values as rednecks) and it bothers so many people, it should be addressed HERE.<<< OK, I understand that. Seeing that I was under the wrong assumption that you were posting about me, initially, and you've since cleared that up, and complimented me in the process (Thanks! ) there's nothing more for me to say or do than at least hope that you two make amends.
